Hi All, I know there are many threads talking about Zipp 606 vs HED H3, alot of them end up in the price difference, so in many cases the H3 is a better deal, however I have the opportunity of buying them for about the same price (great deal on the Zipps) so if price was no issue which one would you recommend?, this is my ONLY race set and somedays I will even like to use for training. I really like the 3 spoke design but am a bit worried about hitting a pot hole and it going out of true! I know the Zipps would be easier to maintain as they can be trued anytime!. Any views please. Also, I am thinking of clinchers, I dont think the difference in weight, rolling resistence, etc… will make a difference for me and I believe clinchers will be more convenient (brake pads, cost of repair, etc…), from everythiing I read I conclude that IF there are differences there are minimal…
Don’t hit any pot holes. But, you could eventually rebuild the rear 606 with a powertap down the road. OR you could get the 606 and trade the front for a H3 (If you still wanted one), then rebuild the rear. Lots of people are looking for a 606 front (Me too!). That is what I would do if I had some money to burn. BTW where did you get such a good deal on the zipps, If I may ask?
so are u suggesting the Zipps 606 to be better deal then? - I am getting a good deal at my LBS in Singapore.
In one of Zipps podcast, Zpp says a 5th generation 404 is faster by 4 to 8 seconds over any three or four spoke wheel for a 40K TT. So I would assume that a set of Zipp 606s would even be faster. Go with the Zipp, faster and better customer service.
The 606 set consists of a 404 front and a 808 rear. The 808 claims to be the “best” wheel out on the market for all around conditions. Better control under windy conditions than a Disc wheel. More aero than the other deep carbon rims (58mm aka 404). The only other carbon rim out there other than a disc that is “deeper” is the Blackwell 100mm and the Blackwell 200mm (I have yet to see any 200mm yet, but I did see Nessy on my last ow swim.). I personally like the 808 rear, but would prefer the 808 front over the 404 front. Unless you ride any hills. If that is the case, then the 606 set is great ( a bit lighter 788g (404) vs. 918g (808) front wheel ). See if you could get the deal on the 808.
I’ve owned the H3, 404, currently using a 999 setup so using the 808 front. Since you mention this will be your only race wheelset, I’d lean toward the 606 set. That H3 can be dicey if you are riding in windy/gusty conditions. MUCH MORE so then either the 404 or 808 front. If you are thinking of buying that wheel (H3), I’d definitely suggest getting out there for a test ride in some wind if possible. If that isn’t a possibility, go with the Zipps- no issues in the wind with those.
“The only other carbon rim out there other than a disc that is “deeper” is the Blackwell 100mm and the Blackwell 200mm”
There a few 90mm deep wheels out there including the Hed Stinger 90 with the tordial rim shape…
To the OP- FWIW- I think the Zipp 606 wheelset is the best choice here. As fast or faster than the Hed 3, probably better hubs as well. If you can get a good price on them I would go that route. If you’re looking at Hed, I would suggest the Stinger 60/90 or Jet 60/90 as an equivalent (and maybe faster option) than the Zipp 606.
I have owned a set of h3’s and currently race 606’s. H3’s are more stout and DO NOT GO OUT OF TRUE. once they are molded the runout is static if the wheel goes out of true it is broken. If you want longevity h3’s are the wheel they are totally bomb proof. My 606’s feel fast but racey ie-- light and fragile.
if I were to buy one set of wheels it would be h3’s wait for the h3 deep due out soon and race and train on them and never give it a second thought.
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I’ll vote for the HED3’s. I’'ve been training and racing on them for many years. Trust me…a ZIpp is not going to last as long as a HED3. One of my HED3 sets is really a SPecialized and is 14 years old. The rear is only barely out of true after literally 1000’s of miles. its totally bombproof and very fast!! I’ve riden a front and rear HED3 in winds up to and gusting over 30mph and unless you are hitting over 35mph its no big deal.
I had a set of the 404’s and, personally, found them not as stable at high speeds and in high winds as the HED3’s.
For training and racing…HED3
A HED3 has more surface area than a 404 so how can it be more stable in high wind? It defies logic.
And for racing, even 5th generations 404s are faster than HED3s, why choose a slower wheel for racing?
OK…it defies logic…oh, well. For me…I sold the 404’s and stayed with the HED3 and I’m happy! Really don’t care about logic. It all works for me.
As far as the 404 being faster then a HED3…then I guess there’s alot of stupid pro, elite and age group cyclists that don’t understand that the 404 is a faster wheel then the HED3. I’ll stick with the HED3, thank you.
A couple of thoughts:
What are you riding now? Are you going to be upset if you lose “4-8 seconds over a 40K”? I know you want all you can get, but really- if you are not on aero race wheels now, you’ll be so much happier with either you won’t know what to do. Does every second really count for you, or only piles of them?
If it were me, I’d go with the 606’s- if for no other reasons, they’re NOT slower, and if you eventually decide otherwise you can get more back out of them likely and then try something else- the bling factor.
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As far as the 404 being faster then a HED3…then I guess there’s alot of stupid pro, elite and age group cyclists that don’t understand that the 404 is a faster wheel then the HED3. I’ll stick with the HED3, thank you.
Zipp is the one that says the 5th generation 404s are faster than any tri or quad spoke out there. Has HED ever made a claim that there wheel is faster than a 5th generation 404?
And what information and link that says the HED3 is faster? I have backed my statement with the source.
I’ve had 404’s, Hed3, Alps, Stingers, 808, 909 and 999. I don’t think I ever noticed a problem with handling with any of them. This is something I think is way over done on this forum.
404 faster than Hed3? Maybe. I am not sure though. The only proof I have ever seen in this matter is from Zipp. I have seen other data though that suggests the Hed 3 is faster. My guess is that the Hed 3 and the 404 are so close that it is probably impossible to accurately gauge which one is really faster. Same with an 808 and a Stinger 90.
Tie breaker goes to the Zipp wheel though for better hubs and more comfortable ride. Bonus points for being able to use them for road racing.
Would you consider a 62mm front and an 85mm rear wheel?
And what information and link that says the HED3 is faster? I have backed my statement with the source.
I love this forum. You give a personal opinion (not neccessarily fact) and someone always wants to argue and try to prove you wrong. Why bother? Everyone has an opinon…mine or yours are not always right or wrong…its an opinon. As for your statement above…whoopie!! : )
When your source information is provided by the same company who make the wheels that are reputedly faster I’m not sure how objective it is!
Not implying that figures published by Zipp are anything less than reliable, but there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of exhaustive, independent research in this area. There’s always a question mark over what tires they were running, or what pressure they were using, or which wind angles they used.
Wow, I knew this was going to start a debate!!. I value everybody’s opinion, sure shows camps are dividen on this one. One thing I did learn for sure is that I won’t go wrong with either one…
Thanks!
And what information and link that says the HED3 is faster? I have backed my statement with the source.
I love this forum. You give a personal opinion (not neccessarily fact) and someone always wants to argue and try to prove you wrong. Why bother? Everyone has an opinon…mine or yours are not always right or wrong…its an opinon. As for your statement above…whoopie!! : )
Source: http://media.libsyn.com/...26_ZippCast_0010.mp3
At 4:46 Josh Poertner makes the statement that “5th generation 404 shape which is coming out to be something 4-8 seconds faster for 40K than the fastest of 3-spoke wheels…People were not accepting of that…”
Not my opinion but a statement from Zipp.
Where/what kind of great deal are you getting for the 606’s? Used? New? Sponsorship? Share, share, share…