Does anyone track day to day resting heart rate variability to gauge training stress/need for more recovery? I’ve been reading up on this and the science makes sense but was wondering if anyone has used some of the tools available through RestWise dot com or myithlete dot com. From high level reading, I think capturing resting heart rate when you wake up in the morning and tracking that yourself is a cost effective way to track heart rate variability. Thoughts?
Does anyone track day to day resting heart rate variability to gauge training stress/need for more recovery? I’ve been reading up on this and the science makes sense but was wondering if anyone has used some of the tools available through RestWise dot com or myithlete dot com. From high level reading, I think capturing resting heart rate when you wake up in the morning and tracking that yourself is a cost effective way to track heart rate variability. Thoughts?
Hi,
I’m a co-founder of Restwise, so take anything I say here with a grain of salt.
You are asking a great question, but are conflating two related but quite distinct concepts: variability in resting heart rate, and Heart Rate Variability.
The former simply captures variations in an athlete’s rested heart rate. There is an enormous amount of research that supports the value of this marker as an indication of fatigue, and you are right that it is worth tracking and that doing so is a cost-effective way to gain insight into your fatigue state. However, there is also a lot of research which suggests that there is a lot of “noise” in this data. Intense dreams, alarm clocks, surprises when waking, etc. can all influence RHR. So, although it is a valuable marker to track (and a very cost effective one), it is not robust enough a marker to use exclusively to drive training decisions. Hence our decision to include a wide range of markers, all of which have been demonstrated to offer some correlation to fatigue state, in Restwise. We want to build a “global fatigue state monitoring system” rather than simply rely on heart-rate information to imply fatigue. But that was our decision, and I’m sure there are those who would disagree. Fair enough.
The latter - HRV - is a much newer way to interpret fatigue state from incredibly subtle fluctuations in the way the heart is beating. Suunto pretty much created this space with their work on R-R to identify (and this is a very simplified explanation) how tired the heart is by measuring the specific interval between the cessation of one heart beat and the commencement of the next… as opposed to the interval between the commencement of each heart beat. You can intuit what this means: the heart is a muscle, so the more fatigued it is, the harder it will have to work at a given HR. Very, very cool stuff, which as been picked up by First Beat (which I think is a spin-off from Suunto??). However, at this point, the scientific community has not developed a concensus position on the science, much less the way to harness the information. If you want to get into the weeds a bit, here is the Wikipedia link to HRV, which offers a great overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate_variability
Bottom line: by all means track your RHR - it is easy to do, easy to track, and very cost effective. But don’t rely on it exclusively for training guidance, as it can’t tell the whole story (and don’t confuse it with HRV).
Hope this helps,
Matthew
Thanks for the replay Matthew - interestingly I just started looking at Restwise today myself. I have previously tracked recovery on and off using Polar’s orthostatic (ownoptimizer) test which takes your waking pulse (3 minute average) lying down followed immediately by your peak and 3 minute average heart rate after standing up. While the research seems to indicate this is a good test, it is logistically a little onerous given the need to put the heart rate strap on after waking up without too much disruptive movement (and after wetting it to get a good reading no less) and then hanging around the bed with the watch beeping etc for 6+ minutes for the test while my wife (who gets up later than me) and the dogs get agitated .
I noticed Restwise asks for your waking HR but not the standing peak or average HR - have you guys found this additional data isn’t that valuable or is replaced by the other data you ask for daily in Restwise?
What a coincidence that the owner of a company got an account two days ago, and then someone who got an account today is now asking questions about that same company.
You couldn’t have done that any better if you PLANNED it.
I’m all for throwing rocks at spammers, but the OP opened and account in Oct 2010.
As far as restwise goes, I would be interested to read some FHE from some users.
To be clear, I don’t have any affiliation with RestWise or Myithlete. I’m putting together my training plan for 2012 and wanted to insert better ways to track recovery using some of the newer tools out there. I think recovery is often overlooked and if there’s an objective way to measure recovery and ease off here and there, I’m all for it.
What a coincidence that the owner of a company got an account two days ago, and then someone who got an account today is now asking questions about that same company.
You couldn’t have done that any better if you PLANNED it.
Yeah, I know how it looks. But I had never heard of Slow Twitch until someone sent me a link to the thread about Sami Inkinen’s performance in Kona, in which he referenced Restwise. Once I was done reading that lengthy and surprisingly controversial thread, I searched for any other thread referencing Restwise (naturally, I was curious!) and found the OP’s question. A suspicious coincidence, for sure… but an honest one.
Thanks for the replay Matthew - interestingly I just started looking at Restwise today myself. I have previously tracked recovery on and off using Polar’s orthostatic (ownoptimizer) test which takes your waking pulse (3 minute average) lying down followed immediately by your peak and 3 minute average heart rate after standing up. While the research seems to indicate this is a good test, it is logistically a little onerous given the need to put the heart rate strap on after waking up without too much disruptive movement (and after wetting it to get a good reading no less) and then hanging around the bed with the watch beeping etc for 6+ minutes for the test while my wife (who gets up later than me) and the dogs get agitated .
I noticed Restwise asks for your waking HR but not the standing peak or average HR - have you guys found this additional data isn’t that valuable or is replaced by the other data you ask for daily in Restwise?
PQN -
We actually believe that this test (and other slightly different protocols expressed in similar step-tests) is quite effective at determining fatigue state, and is supported by a compelling body of research. The challenge, as you point out, is the PIA factor (pain in the ass). The greatest challenge with any training optimization regimen is athlete compliance. This goes for nutrition, tracking training load, plan compliance, etc. just as much as it goes for fatigue monitoring. We are our own worst enemies, right? The team at Restwise has debated adding different versions of fatigue-based heart-rate monitoring, or or giving the athlete the option to choose from a short list, but haven’t done so… yet. The reason? Our goal is to make Restwise as easy and as intuitive as possible, thereby (hopefully) increasing athlete adherence. After all, no matter how valuable a protocol may be, if an athlete doesn’t do it, it is useless.
You’ll laugh at this: when we first conceived of a fatigue monitoring system, we interviewed around 100 elite athletes in a variety of endurance sports. One of the questions was whether they knew about the value of tracking resting heart rate (nearly everyone did), and if they did so regularly (almost nobody did). When we asked why they didn’t do so, they all said it was too much of a hassle. Objectively, this is silly. Understanding fatigue is the “low hanging fruit” when it comes to optimizing the results from endurance training, and if it just takes a minute or so to do, one could argue that this is the most valuable minute of an athlete’s day. But you can’t ignore reality: most athletes don’t track resting heart rate because it is a hassle. So the question for us was simple: how do we design a global fatigue monitoring system that athletes would use and which, though not precisely accurate, would offer valuable insight into their body’s response to training stimulus? We think we are really close at this point, but we continue to tweak the inputs and the algorithm, seeking that balance between validity, accuracy, compliance… and low PIA factor!
Hope this helps,
Matthew
Hi PQN
I keep my WIND Wear Link by the bed with a water bottle. I am also guilty of not doing it every morning but once I get into the routine, it becomes easier. I never have to get up prior to the watch beeping to perform the test. I understand the wife and pet issue(cat who meows while I stand like zombie). Just prior to the three minute BEEP to stand up, I cover that wrist or roll it towards my body to muffle the sound. Once standing, and just prior to the final beep, I cover the RS800cx with my opposite hand. I also have a clock radio that flashes the time of day on the ceiling so I know exactly when the beep is about to happen. This might be a little work around to keep the family happy.
You can chart your OwnOpt results in Pro5 under Reports. OwnOpt and Running Index are to easy ways for a self coach athlete to identify signs of potentially over training,
Thanks for the replies - and (like the OP) while it may look suspicious to some, I have no affiliation to Polar, Restwise or any other company in the field…just another person doing a search and reading / participating in threads of interest:-)
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It is ok PQN, I have enough time on this message board where I would hope the ST’ers know I would never stoop to having someone posting a question for me and hijack a post. You could PM me any r-r questions that are Polar related