Being newer to biking I’ve been working on upping my miles / base over the off season.
I rode the equivelant of about 400 miles each of the last 2 months which is a ton for me especially with swimming lots (again for me) at the same time.
I’ve done a couple 2 x 20 workouts at about 250 watts. However I’ve never done a true FTP test. It’s a little intimidating only because I’m not 100% sure how to go about doing so (worried about pacing). I’m getting to where I think I can now guess pretty close and not completely blow the pace.
My question is what is YOUR heart rate at FTP? The other day I did 2 x 20 at 250ish watts and never exceeded 150bpm. This seems pretty low to me, but maybe it’s spot on. I don’t know so I’m asking. I honestly don’t even know my HR max so need to work on finding that as well. Thanks.
My personal HR has kinda varied during these workouts. But a few recent workouts look like this:
A 2x20 at 95-100% - 1st interval had an avg HR of 167 and the 2nd was 173
The previous week I did my FTP test with my 20min interval giving me an avg HR of 176
I don’t truly know my max heart rate at this time, but a running VO2 max from this past summer said I was around 190, so I’m still basing off that.
I say your best bet is to just got for it and hit the 20min all out effort. Do the first 10mins or so at 250W and just go up from there the second half, and I’m sure you can get your HR racing up pretty good.
Heart rates at any given exercise intensity will vary a good bit from one individual to another. Since you have a power meter, you really just want to get your power zones set and while doing the testing, you might as well get that data too if you’d like to use both. Don’t worry about others’ values, heart rate or power, it won’t tell you a whole lot.
gotcha, I still think you’ll want to develop your own zones. Test on the KK in such a way as to get power as you can from it with heart rate to use while indoors and call it good.
That’s a tough one because HR and power is relative to the person. What was your percieved effort while doing the intervals and having your HR in the 150s? Of course, the best method is to find out is to use a lactate meter but not everyone has access to one. My 1 hour tt power is 250 with a FTP HR of 172. My PE at that moment is 8-8.5. When I was road racing and had a coach specifically for that, my coach only wanted to see where my HR was so I wouldn’t be stressing my heart more than I had to. Other than that, he would tell me “only look at the power” to get a quality interval in.
I was always told that for a true FTP test you needed to be well rested and hydrated. That meant 5-7 days of very easy workouts. Im sure someone will have a different opinion though. Good luck.
What was your percieved effort while doing the intervals and having your HR in the 150s?
This is difficult for me to answer. I’m a runner so when running hard I’m used to everything hurting. To get to that place on the bike seems to require MUCH more pain because it’s so specific to the glutes / quads. This is why I’ve tried to get my mileage / bike base up some before trying real hard stuff. I need to get used to that very specific leg pain. I’m getting there, but just can’t imagine doing 20++ mins at 170 HR. It’s going to be crazy pain which I definitely will need to harden up to. Once I get used to it I’ll be fine. That’s why I asked.
I’ll likely do a formal FTP trainer test next week.
What was your percieved effort while doing the intervals and having your HR in the 150s?
This is difficult for me to answer. I’m a runner so when running hard I’m used to everything hurting. To get to that place on the bike seems to require MUCH more pain because it’s so specific to the glutes / quads. This is why I’ve tried to get my mileage / bike base up some before trying real hard stuff. I need to get used to that very specific leg pain. I’m getting there, but just can’t imagine doing 20++ mins at 170 HR. It’s going to be crazy pain which I definitely will need to harden up to. Once I get used to it I’ll be fine. That’s why I asked.
I see your point. And the opposite is for me. Im coming from a bike background and trying to run. You are right, running is a whole different pain tolerance!! HR shoots up way to easy with running for me while running. Let us know how it goes next week.
What was your percieved effort while doing the intervals and having your HR in the 150s?
This is difficult for me to answer. I’m a runner so when running hard I’m used to everything hurting. To get to that place on the bike seems to require MUCH more pain because it’s so specific to the glutes / quads. This is why I’ve tried to get my mileage / bike base up some before trying real hard stuff. I need to get used to that very specific leg pain. I’m getting there, but just can’t imagine doing 20++ mins at 170 HR. It’s going to be crazy pain which I definitely will need to harden up to. Once I get used to it I’ll be fine. That’s why I asked.
I’ll likely do a formal FTP trainer test next week.
I’m sort of the opposite - cyclist first and runner second (though thats changing!). I can put myself deep into the hurt locker on the bike but find it much easier to back off on the run when the pain really starts to set in - partly because I have some demons that still haunt me from running related injuries, but regardless. It’s going to hurt but you’ll be surprised how far or how long you can push yourself. Requires a considerable amount of focus. I’ll spend all day thinking about a threshold workout on the bike - trying to psych myself up. As you’ve stated though, pacing is super important and you need to find out where you’re threshold level is. But, the only way to find that is to give it a go!
From my experience, to help with your pacing your test
How much rest was between those 2x20 ? If 4-5minutes and you felt that you emptied the tank, your FTP is probably around that 250. If you felt you could have done more, it’s probably higher. Then take 105% of that to get an approximation for your 20’ test
If you are at the right pace, on the 20’ test, at 12min you will be sure you won’t make it and then at 17 you’ll dig down and pull some extra watts
Try it, draw a line in the sand and go from there.
These are all approximations, but you need to start somewhere and refine from there.
I did 4 mins rest and I was very tired, but definitely wasn’t fading at the end. If anything I rallied the last several minutes and was averaging closer to 260++ watts. In contrast I know how to run well enough that I never rally at the end of the run workouts.
I hear you on the 12 min and 17 min thing and that’s what I need to lean for sure.
If you don’t have a power meter, I cant see how you have any idea as to how many watts you are pushing. 300 watts in the first 5 minutes feels very different than 300 watts in the last 5 minutes of a 2x20 set. Your FTP (otherwise known as the highest power you can hold for an hour) is most likely attained at a pretty high heart rate. The only way to get true FTP is to go and race your bike for an hour, with a power meter. If you want to get your heart rate during that time, its easy to do, but it will vary based on temperature, hydration, etc.
From the FTP test I did on the first, my final HR was my max HR. For my 20 minute warmup, I did something like a start at 75% to 80% and held that for around 4 minutes or so, then every 3 or 4 minutes increased till I was at 90% for a couple of minutes, then pedaled slow for a couple of minutes to bring my HR down a bit before starting my 30 min FTP. As I have recently decreased my beta blocker meds I didn’t really know what my max HR was so had to use a range.
I went into the FTP using 90% of max HR as the goal to maintain. In this case it gave me a range. With the warmup I did I managed t o reach this within a couple of minutes. Note that my average spin for the 30 minutes was 97 rpm so I was keeping a decent cadence, higher than I would normally average but I was on a Computrainer dead flat course which helps.
About 5 minutes into it I questioned whether I was gear too hard but decided to keep at it. At 15 minutes I didn’t know if I could hold on or not. With 5 minutes to go I could see that my power was dropping a bit and my average dropped by 1. With 2 minutes to go I said I was going to kill the MutherF$)(er and increased my power output and got the “1” back. My HR increased by 3 to 4 bpm over the last 5 minutes.
With 50 seconds to go I knew I was going to hang on but I could see the hundreds of a second count down. Those last 50 seconds were long. At the end I clicked up 3 or 4 gears and dropped my spin to about 60 and my power to an equivalent number over the next 10 minutes to cool down.
This time I can say that I was pretty well maxed out. It is doubtful whether I could have gone much further (and certainly not at that rate) and equally doubtful that I could have generated much higher power. This is ultimately the answer to the original question. If you end at this level then you are at max HR.
Now, to go for a run tonight and see what max HR I reach.
[quote BCDon
About 5 minutes into it I questioned whether I was gear too hard but decided to keep at it. At 15 minutes I didn’t know if I could hold on or not. With 5 minutes to go I could see that my power was dropping a bit and my average dropped by 1. With 2 minutes to go I said I was going to kill the MutherF$)(er and increased my power output and got the “1” back. My HR increased by 3 to 4 bpm over the last 5 minutes.
With 50 seconds to go I knew I was going to hang on but** I could see the hundreds of a second count down**. Those last 50 seconds were long. At the end I clicked up 3 or 4 gears and dropped my spin to about 60 and my power to an equivalent number over the next 10 minutes to cool down.
Freaken hilarious…that’s exactly what I felt through every interval last year.