I don’t see much interest in Ironman nowadays. Could it be cyclic in a few years be back? Did Andrew Messick really screw and leave a bad taste with refunds, moving the Championships etc?
Are you guys experiencing the same in your state/region?
I don’t see much interest in Ironman nowadays. Could it be cyclic in a few years be back? Did Andrew Messick really screw and leave a bad taste with refunds, moving the Championships etc?
Are you guys experiencing the same in your state/region?
My take is that as brands become big, established, and mature products, they loose something and are less exciting. I think out of any product/organization Ironman has the potential to overcome this maturation inertia based on my assumptions behind them having race directors in charge of each race.
If one RD managed 5-10 races, I can see each race becoming a mature and then stale product. But if you’ve got one person’s primary job to look after and promote the hell out of that race (with the support of a marketing team they can have generate assets for etc) then there should be so much potential and excitement.
That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a combination of a few things happening: race directors have gotten used to putting on a great race on race day and not needing to put as much effort in the rest of the year. Or if they are juggling a lot of Ironman responsibilities behind the scenes. At least according to my quick google, an RD for Ironman makes 100-180k a year. No doubt they work their tail off in the days, weeks, and even months leading into a race. But if (assuming…) that’s all they are doing, there’s likely a lot they could be doing in the local market to get people excited to sign-up for an Ironman.
My main point is, Ironman seems to have a lot of self-interested parties in the local market with the race is taking place, which should create an opportunity for a lot of innovation. Maybe the compensation isn’t aligned right and the additional 10k bonus (just made that up) for an extra 500-1000 sign-ups just isn’t worth the effort? All conjecture, but I do think the fact that they have local teams in place for each event should be a huge strength in their favor.
I’m a COVID triathlete, but to me Ironman feels like going to the private equity mega-dentist office.
Local races have a much different (better) vibe. Especially since you see a lot of the same folks at all the local races.
Participation definitely seems to be down. At St. George last weekend there was a large section of bike racks that were just empty at the final bike drop hour.
I still think Ironman puts on the best show, but there is a value proposition when it comes to racing an Ironman. As we inch closer and closer to a $500 entry fee, it seems that there are a lot of people falling off. I think the best negligence being done by Ironman is doing damn near nothing to attract the next generation of athletes. Why there isn’t a hefty student discount is beyond me, because those people will eventually become the next generation that brings their families with them, books the hotel, buys the food, etc… The sport is seemingly getting older and older and there’s not a single plan in place to attract the next generation of triathletes.
As I mentioned previously, Ironman definitely reigns supreme for the pomp and circumstance. At some point though, the luster of the red carpet isn’t worth the admission price. Hopefully the new CEO sees this and finds a way to promote participation that doesn’t make up for lost numbers by trying to kill the existing customers on the margin.
Tri club membership discounts, college student discounts, sign-up with a first-time friend discounts, etc.
But I’m sure there are many other non-price innovations from the tradeshow, to a concert before and during the event, to more speakers lining the run course to more things like the Kona coffee boat in the middle of the swim.
I think the risk is the more fanfare you put into the race, the more spectacle it becomes, the more you turn off the top 10(?) age groupers in each category who are competition purists. But I think Ironman would rather have more of a spectacular event racing festival than a straight laced “endurance event”?
Case in point, we’ve all run by that one kid with a super soaker or the house with the hose. Anyone ever get the fire department involved? Or have the local elementary school kids setup a water balloon zone? All kinds of fun potential. Again, it becomes more of a festival like this, but I think locals would have a field day if IM actually equipped a station with a bunch of hose mounted water guns (yes, it would have to be a separate lane you choose to run through), etc.
This would require giving up some opportunity to extract value from every last aspect of the event. IE Ironman taking over the coffee boat from Blue Seventy reduced a lot of marketing excitement. Ironman extracting as much value as possible from its vendors, likewise. Giving away vendors spots at a very low price, or even for free in exchange for some kind of in-kind prize promotions, etc. gets a lot more excitement to be there.
It doesn’t allow IM to capture the profit from every last dollar spent at the tradeshow, but it does increase the amount of overall spend at the show, excitement in promoting the show, etc. Instead of having 50 vendors each promoting the hell out of their activities at the Ironman this weekend, it has a handful of vendors praying they aren’t going to lose their shirts.
As a new person to the sport that worked my way up from sprint to Olympic to my first IM sign up this year I can say that I have no intention of ever signing up for another IM branded race because of their bullshit. I’ve mentioned it a couple of times before, but they told me to go fuck myself when I tried to use my Flex90 benefits so I’m not giving them another $450+.
I know five people from work who have done Ironman, all more than once (there might be people at my gym, but that’s one place that I don’t talk to anybody - mostly)
I don’t think they know care about Messick & the brand - they just want to do the races, regardless of the management
If they’ve dropped out of the sport, it’s because of other factors = new jobs, new kids, new relationships, etc.
Long time racer and done many IM branded races. I felt like i got screwed by IM last year over their cancellation policies. I had registered almost a year in advance for 3x 70.3 races last summer. My hip blew up the week of Chatt… SOL, as it was too close to get any refund or transfer. Muskoka runs independent of IM, so no refund or transfer. I did do the swim to get something out of it. Then I did get a 25% refund from Tremblant… and as it turned out i could have got a full refund because the race was cancelled. A lot of bad luck… timing, long term injury etc. I asked the folks at IM if there was something they could do, as I lost 3x registrations because of one injury (still waiting for surgery). I didn’t even get a response. So, for about $1300, i got a $100 refund and a swim… one expensive swim! I will race with IM again, because of the competitive fields, organization and courses that I like, but I’m in no hurry to sign up a year in advance, especially with races not filling like they used to.
As a new person to the sport that worked my way up from sprint to Olympic to my first IM sign up this year I can say that I have no intention of ever signing up for another IM branded race because of their bullshit. I’ve mentioned it a couple of times before, but they told me to go fuck myself when I tried to use my Flex90 benefits so I’m not giving them another $450+.
I realize it sucks, and when you deal with policies and layers of bureaucracy mingled with expectations that are failed to be met, that attitude is understandable.
But I’d just say, at the end of the day, if best case 150 bucks of my $400 went into shareholders pockets (fat chance I bet it’s that high), and the rest was distributed to various employees and vendors of Ironman, is that worth it to me?
Most of my Ironman cost is equipment, time, hotel, etc. Doing one race a year, that entry fee is nothing. And I realize you might not even be complaining about the cost, but the betrayal. Fair enough. But you drive down the highway and hit a piece of debris in your vehicle and are out more than that. It sucks, but money is just a medium of exchange to get what you want at the end of the day.
I’m happy to pay people to put on races, even if I think they could be doing better if I were The Kingâ„¢
I also was shocked to find out my flex90 didn’t work the way I thought it did and had to make an expensive unplanned for trip to use it at a race I never expected to go to. And will never go back to again because the course wasn’t interesting to me. But it was a nice trip for the wife and I and one of life’s memories. Those are worth paying for.
Part of the issue may be perception. Once you are out of the ironman game for a few years, it may seem like there is no, or decreased, interest in the sport. That’s how I felt. Then again, a friend of mine who is a local coach says he has an ever growing number of athletes participating in IM events (half and full). He said there may be a slight decrease but nothing dramatic
You have just been in the game to long with rinse and repeat your bored and it becomes repetitive which happens in all sports/ activities.
I have seen a lot of new athletes all more interested in ironman brand races then none. many under 40 years of age.
Also seen a lot of old men and women burn out and move on to shorter distances , less completive races to lower training goals and expectations etc. Or just they made their goal and can move to something else.
90% of age grouper do not have any knowledge of Ironman brand history or CEO’s . nor do they know many pros unless they role into their YouTube algorithms. Hence why he have an ARI thread???
Overall the sport dies in certain areas hence why Ironman knows to move race locations and give new experience and races as people travel to new location but the same stroke, pedal, stride.
Yeah it was not so much about the money as I ended up getting it all back from the cc company anyway. It was more the way they decided to handle it by lying to me and refusing to address any of the evidence sent to them. They can have shitty business practices if they want, but I’m not going to do business with them if that’s how they want to operate.
I’d compare it more to trying to get payout for a claim with an insurance company.
You’ve paid them handsomely for a service in the future. You get marketing emails from their brand partners for months on end. You get invites for “Premium Upgrades exclusive to you!”. From the second you give them your money they start asking you for more money.
Then it’s time for them to provide their product and it’s as though you are nothing but a pain in the behind to them. I’m sorry, no you can’t come the morning of the race to rack your bike and pickup your number, you need to come 2 days before. Oh, no, you can’t walk up to registration, you need to parade through a mall of overpriced T shirts. Sir, can I take your picture in front of this logo board? It will be available for $39.99 on IRONMANPHOTOS.com. And mind you, 90% of the people you interact with are unpaid volunteers.
It’s not that their product is boring or anodyne, it’s that their product is starting to feel less like a fun event and more like a post-market-capture money grab.
I don’t see much interest in Ironman nowadays. Could it be cyclic in a few years be back? Did Andrew Messick really screw and leave a bad taste with refunds, moving the Championships etc?
Are you guys experiencing the same in your state/region?
Just rethinking title question. The Ironman has a lot more swag than the dentist. Maybe if the dentist upped his game and gave me a backpack and t-shirt with my free toothbrush and toothpaste they’d be equal.
But on the other hand, they both now say to avoid sugary drinks, so there’s that.
Just rethinking title question. The Ironman has a lot more swag than the dentist. Maybe if the dentist upped his game and gave me a backpack and t-shirt with my free toothbrush and toothpaste they’d be equal.
When my daughter got her braces off, the orthodontist gave us a branded polo shirt, a sling-bag, a car/refrigerator magnet, a water bottle, as well as a handful of pens & notepads
But, braces are a much deeper investment than two cleanings per year
I have two freaking totes with those dumb bags and shirts. I donated a bunch of them years ago and this thread reminds me to donate the rest to someone who can use them. I’d be much more interested in long course gravel triathlons that were well organized. I feel like a lot of these sports became arms races for the rich instead of opening these sports up to more athletes. I can’t talk with the bikes and equipment I have, but it all became much more boring, especially when I do these sports to be with friends and because I love to train.
Ironman got pretty boring for me. My dentist at least is a musician and lets me go to his private room for family and friends so I can play the guitars on the wall while I wait.
I don’t think it has changed a lot. Endurance sports seems to be primarily something older folks are interested in now. Local open water swims full of 50 and 60 year olds etc. Running seems to be majority women with a fair degree of younger representation. I have done both Ironman and non Ironman full and half distances. The one difference seems to be the non Ironman ones are cheaper.
For instance Embrunman is a epic race well run a true unique experience. About 400 euros=400USD.
Shit. What do you mean? I’m getting ready to look into rescheduling my race
Make sure you reach out at least 45 days before your race to use Flex90
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Just rethinking title question. The Ironman has a lot more swag than the dentist. Maybe if the dentist upped his game and gave me a backpack and t-shirt with my free toothbrush and toothpaste they’d be equal.
When my daughter got her braces off, the orthodontist gave us a branded polo shirt, a sling-bag, a car/refrigerator magnet, a water bottle, as well as a handful of pens & notepads
But, braces are a much deeper investment than two cleanings per year
Ok, so we’re saying Ironman is better than a dentist, but about equal to an orthodontist?