I’m looking at doing the TR full distance base-build-specialty high volume plan starting in January for an August 2020 ironman. I’ve previously done the full distance plan medium volume with somewhat limited success. Power got way up to 4.6w/kg but I fell apart from overtraining during the specialty phase and had a bad IM (heat on race day and overtrained were I think my biggest factors there).
This coming year I’m thinking of doing the high volume plan but cut back on the running and swimming to maybe twice a week each to save some energy. Part of my new philosophy this time is based off of Joe Friel’s blog here
So for those that have done the high volume plan,
Can you break down a typical training week day by day including swimming and running (and how much running intensity)?
Did you burn out during the build?
Did you do any prep before starting the base to avoid a massive jump in volume? Like if I take November and December off cycling as an offseason, but then start full distance high volume base with seven hours a week, will I get into trouble?
I haven’t done it but just pulled up the plan on TR and looked at the base phase description. To quote:
The high-volume version of the Full Distance Triathlon Base plan has triathletes swimming four times each week for up to 12,000m, on the bike 4 times each week up to 10 hours total during the peak-volume cycling week (including a weekly brick workout) and running up to 5 hours during the peak running week.
This volume version targets experienced full-distance triathletes with ample training time, a substantial training history, and ambitious goals along the lines of age-group podiums and Kona spots - on 20 hours per week at the high end of things.
Yes. But what I want to do is marry Friel’s method with the Trainerroad method. Sure it would be great to run 90km a week in training but really all I’m after is getting through the 180km bike without total meltdown so I can run the whole marathon, like Friel says. And try to do all that on 12-15 hours/week without overtraining.
I have no experience in full distance, but starting next november I’ll start my prep for my first (probably the last) IM in late may. My problem with TR plans is to barryp after VO² and FTP work. I can nail every bike workout, but they are too hard and I have a really hard time running after it. Otherwise. I’ve already looked carefully the medium and high volume base. They have minimum changes, at least bike-wise. Basically the tempo and long rides are a little bit longer.
My idea is to go base high volume while my running mileage increases. After that going mid volume.
Nate … if you are not having great success with the medium volume plan, the higher volume plan will dig you an even uglier hole.
It is quiet common that the TR IM plans are not addressing the needs of most LD triathletes and a common theme is either, being able to handle the bike workouts and struggling to do much of the runs successfully OR not being able to handle the intensity of the bike rides which negatively effects run & swim quality.
For the medium volume plan it may not be the volume that limits you, it me be the intensity. If so I would take a different approach.
(If you do not know who Alan Couzens is, I’d advise reading as much of his stuff as possible … very effective and proven)
i also would advise against a high volume plan given your previous experience - i’m nearly through my mid volume TR plan and when you add in strength training, stretching, additional rest days and adjusting the calendar as you listen to your body for overtraining or injuries, the mid volume is plenty. unless you are looking to qualify or win your AG i don’t see the benefit of the additional sacrifice - it’s already a big one.
I’ve tried it and it didn’t end well. Dave Latourette’s comments above are spot on, but to answer your questions directly:
(1) I won’t break it down exactly because I’m sure TR won’t want their subscription stuff published for free, but it’s basically the same as the mid-volume, just more volume per workout; 4x swim, 4x bike and 4x run sessions per week. I felt as though it was light on running and could have done with more easy sessions.
(2) Yes, exactly. Made it through the base phase reasonably fine, but fell apart within the first few weeks of the build phase. In hindsight, even though I could “handle” the volume in Base, it was still too much in terms of optimal training adaptation and benefit.
(3) Yes, I did most of the Olympic High-Volume plan in Oct-Nov-Dec prior to starting it the Full Distance in the new year. Gave me a good running start, but the volume was still way too much.
I know it’s an in-vogue topic at the moment, but recovery is key; doing the High Volume plan will just be piling on more and more stress without giving your body time to adapt and improve. As Dave says, if you struggled with the mid-volume, the high-volume will kill you.
Not using full im plan, but in general i modify the tri or bike plans to do the amount of intensity i can handle. With the calendar feature it is pretty easy. Tr plans have 3 or 4 days of intensity and i change it to 1 or 2 on bike, with 1 major running interval day, 1 hard swim.
I do an almost hv oly variation, at 10 to 11 during xterra season, moving up to around 12 for savageman prep which breaks down to about 6h bike, 4h run, 2h swim (not including ri) will be 41 in sep so think that is the right amount of running intensity i can handle.
Sorry to pollute your thread with what’s likely not what you want to hear: I realize training load is very personal, but I can’t fathom how 99.9% of people can actually benefit from doing the high volume plan. I’ve done Medium and improved, but the further into phases I went, I found the more I was skipping or modifying workouts. Eventually, switched to Low volume, where I’ve had the most success.
I don’t claim to have a true and only formula for success (kind of impossible without some info about your experience and strengths might help too), but I’d look into combining Medium volume with a few strength/mobility sessions a week, at least for the Base and Build months and see where that takes you. Seems like that generally should be a better strategy than High Volume. Good luck!
I’ve attempted the half IM high volume plan in the past and have to make a lot of adjustments. The intensity is just too high to the point where it seems counter productive. They also have you doing a VO2 run after a long ride on saturday, that’s certainly a recipe for disaster and you’re not going to do that workout well. I think the high volume plans could be made better by lowering the intensity during many of the weeks.
Also, looking at the link you posted, I feel like pete jacob’s is a terrible example to follow, he’s an extremely good swimmer with background in swimming and a gifted runner. His weakness is the bike, which is why he puts in so much time on it.
In fairness, a while back (12+ months) they addressed this on the TR podcast and Nate said that he really wanted to drop the High Volume mid-and long-distance tri plans because of the massive failure rate that they saw with people subscribed to them. I don’t know why they still have them on there; the kind of people that will genuinely benefit from that workload are the kind of people that probably wouldn’t be using a canned training plan like that anyway.
In fairness, a while back (12+ months) they addressed this on the TR podcast and Nate said that he really wanted to drop the High Volume mid-and long-distance tri plans because of the massive failure rate that they saw with people subscribed to them. I don’t know why they still have them on there; the kind of people that will genuinely benefit from that workload are the kind of people that probably wouldn’t be using a canned training plan like that anyway.
I’m not surprised. I saw huge gains on the low volume plan and eventually moved to mid volume. My FTP went from 210 to 300 in one year and my IM PR dropped by 51 minutes to 9:45. I’m very happy with the results but now that my FTP is around 300 I’m struggling in mid volume and often have to drop interval difficulty to 95-97%. Even then I sometimes skip a recovery run or recovery bike. I will likely change back to low volume to see if that puts me back on track to improve. I’ll admit I probably don’t go easy enough on easy days, which is my own fault.
Maybe mid volume should become the new high volume plan and TR can create a new mid volume that would be between the current low and mid volume plans.
This is a timely thread for me as I was just laying out my TR plan for next year. I was using the half mid volume plan to start the off season and then gradually working my way into the Full High Volume Plan. I did ok with the Full Mid Volume plan this year and figure the extra kick in the pants might help. But reading through this thread has given me enough to see that the extra jump up is not going to help in the way I thought it might.
My latest idea has me doing 4 build phases before the final specialty phase. I have a strong base with not injuries through my full training this year. Currently in an off month with just sporadic training, hiking and club runs/rides to keep me active. With the new plan I’ve added the taper week after each 8 week build phase for recovery as I know the build phases can be demanding. Has anyone done something like this? If so did you feel it brought gains?
I’m looking at doing the TR full distance base-build-specialty high volume plan starting in January for an August 2020 ironman. I’ve previously done the full distance plan medium volume with somewhat limited success. Power got way up to 4.6w/kg but I fell apart from overtraining during the specialty phase and had a bad IM (heat on race day and overtrained were I think my biggest factors there).
This coming year I’m thinking of doing the high volume plan but cut back on the running and swimming to maybe twice a week each to save some energy. Part of my new philosophy this time is based off of Joe Friel’s blog here
So for those that have done the high volume plan,
Can you break down a typical training week day by day including swimming and running (and how much running intensity)?
Did you burn out during the build?
Did you do any prep before starting the base to avoid a massive jump in volume? Like if I take November and December off cycling as an offseason, but then start full distance high volume base with seven hours a week, will I get into trouble?
I definitely would not recommend training for an Ironman with just two runs a week, or swims for that matter.
I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve not used TR for a full, but have used the mid-volume plan for a half several times. However, I don’t use the swim and run workouts. I follow a barryP type running plan with 4-5 runs a week with all of them being easy runs and minimal intensity. If I’m feeling frisky and fresh, I’ll add a fast finish to my long run or a race pace effort at the end of a brick. That being said, I’ve never really found the bike volume or intensity of the mid-volume plans to be a problem. In fact this year, I’m adding more low intensity bike volume this year by periodically adding in an extra Z1 bike or two.
Also need to take into account how much rest you’re getting and what kind of base you’re starting from (base including the whole of the previous year’s training). I do wonder what kind of base those that’re trashed after doing the TR plans are starting with and what kind of rest they’re getting.
I’ve always found the high volume plans to include way to much intensity for what my body could handle. The TR plans include a lot of intensity and the % duration of intensity seems to remain pretty constant even as volume increases. Ive had good success at olympic/half distance by doing the low or medium plans and layering on extra z2 work in the WU or CD.
I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve not used TR for a full, but have used the mid-volume plan for a half several times. However, I don’t use the swim and run workouts. I follow a barryP type running plan with 4-5 runs a week with all of them being easy runs and minimal intensity. If I’m feeling frisky and fresh, I’ll add a fast finish to my long run or a race pace effort at the end of a brick. That being said, I’ve never really found the bike volume or intensity of the mid-volume plans to be a problem. In fact this year, I’m adding more low intensity bike volume this year by periodically adding in an extra Z1 bike or two.
Also need to take into account how much rest you’re getting and what kind of base you’re starting from (base including the whole of the previous year’s training). I do wonder what kind of base those that’re trashed after doing the TR plans are starting with and what kind of rest they’re getting.
Haha… it’s a big step going from the 4x per week bike workouts (+ some easy running) of the mid-volume 70.3 plan to doing *all *of the workouts of the high-volume 140.6 plan; I’ve followed the Oly and 70.3 plans myself and not run into huge difficulties.
To answer your final points, I felt like I had a good base coming into it, following the TR 70.3 plan and racing a 70.3 before in the summer prior and doing most of the Oly plan the autumn/winter prior. I devoted a good amount of time to recovery, no kids or major commitments so was regularly getting a solid 8-9 hours of sleep every night, job not particularly stressful etc etc. The point is that the plan *itself *doesn’t leave much space for recovery; it prescribes 2 workouts-a-day, 6-days-per-week with a high intensity S/B/R session every single weekday and long bikes/runs each day at the weekend. I’ve no doubt some people can handle that kind of volume and intensity, but I couldn’t and I doubt your average mere mortal can either.
The only time I’ve heard of people doing the Tr plans as written is during the Kona interviews that they have, and even then it is only 1 or 2 of the interviews. Everyone else is doing some sort of modification to the plans to make it fit for their schedule or fitness, and those are the Kona qualifiers using the plans.
Not the exact answer to your question…I love TR. It’s the best valued service out there IMO, but I felt even the mid-volume plan had a bit too much intensity on the bike. VO2 max training can produce major gains in a shorter amount of time, but it also widens the injury window a bit. I would say it could be done, but you would have to listen to your body closely and adjust some of the intensity (but that’s the case with any plan).