So I’m just starting to use this plan for a spring marathon. Anyone use it previously or read through it and have any opinions. Compared to most plans its (for AGers, vs elite) shorter long runs, and more intensity.
The Hanson’s plan emphasizes goal pace and running the long run on tired legs. They want you to get used to running your marathon goal pace by throwing a steady diet of tempo runs at you. The tempos can get up to 10 miles total. You’re conditioning your legs to run the pace you want during the marathon. The workouts serve to tire you out for the long run. Their thought is the last 16 miles of the race are the toughest so they try to simulate that by limiting the long run to 16 miles and doing it on tired legs.
It’s definitely an interesting approach. I’ve always followed Pfitz’s Advanced Marathoning book. My best is 2:40 using his 18 week plan. Under Pfitz’s plan you do tempo runs, mid-week long runs, and Sunday long runs. Eventually the temp runs turn into speed intervals starting at 600 meters and moving up to mile repeats. I was always on pace to run my goal of 2:37 only to fade in the last 6-8 miles of the race. I never hit the wall but I had difficulty maintaining 6:00 pace after 18 miles or so. When researching other training plans I saw the Hanson’s plan emphasized goal pace runs and doing the long run on tired legs to simulate the last miles of the marathon. So I’m actually going to use the Hanson’s training for my next marathon. Maybe I’ll be able to hold on for a little while longer and finally go sub 2:40.
I’ve always followed Pfitz’s Advanced Marathoning book. My best is 2:40 using his 18 week plan.
Question… I’m planning on using this plan for a Spring marathon, but will be a couple of weeks shy of 18 by the time I’m ready to start. I could use the 12 week plan, but it’s fairly aggressive in the build, and I’m coming off an injury. So, I’m considering using a combination of the two plans to make a 15 week plan. My thoughts were to use longer Mesocycle 1 from the 18 week plan, then transition to the 12 week plan for the remainder to gain the missing weeks back.
What do you think of that approach?
Have you ever tried the 12 week plan? What kind of differences did you notice?
Thanks.
The Hanson’s plan emphasizes goal pace and running the long run on tired legs. They want you to get used to running your marathon goal pace by throwing a steady diet of tempo runs at you. The tempos can get up to 10 miles total. You’re conditioning your legs to run the pace you want during the marathon. The workouts serve to tire you out for the long run. Their thought is the last 16 miles of the race are the toughest so they try to simulate that by limiting the long run to 16 miles and doing it on tired legs.
It’s definitely an interesting approach. I’ve always followed Pfitz’s Advanced Marathoning book. My best is 2:40 using his 18 week plan. Under Pfitz’s plan you do tempo runs, mid-week long runs, and Sunday long runs. Eventually the temp runs turn into speed intervals starting at 600 meters and moving up to mile repeats. I was always on pace to run my goal of 2:37 only to fade in the last 6-8 miles of the race. I never hit the wall but I had difficulty maintaining 6:00 pace after 18 miles or so. When researching other training plans I saw the Hanson’s plan emphasized goal pace runs and doing the long run on tired legs to simulate the last miles of the marathon. So I’m actually going to use the Hanson’s training for my next marathon. Maybe I’ll be able to hold on for a little while longer and finally go sub 2:40.
Thats a good explaination of the Hanson’s plan. I’ll add that they also recommend speedwork in the beginning of the their cycle where as most marathon plans throw speedwork in at the end.
I loosely followed Pfitz in 2011. I averaged 70 MPW during the 10 weeks leading up to my taper. However, I skipped the speed interval sessions and inserted more MP running.
I’m coming up on the end of week 1 in my 18 week Boston cycle. At this point, I’m still bouncing between Hanson and Pfitz plans. I like the LT pace and MP running of Hanson, but I also feel that the midweek longer runs and long runs were key for me last time. So, I think I’m going to be doing a hybrid of the 2 plans.
Here are my key workouts. I won’t do all of them each week, but they will be in my rotation.
LT pace Workouts (2 x 3 miles @LT, 3 x 2 miles @LT, Races)Marathon Pace Runs of increasing distanceMidweek mid-long runGeneral conditioning pace runsLong RunEasy Runs
I used the Hanson plan last year for the Feb. Surf City marathon, and for me it worked very well. Dropped my PR from 3:19 to 3:07, 3 minutes below my goal, so no complaints.
Like most I think, I was a little skeptical of the 16 mile max long run, which is only run 3 times. Got a little nervous about this so did a 19 miler the third time round, 3 weeks out.
The weekly marathon pace run was hard. Doesn’t look that tough when you look at the schedule, but with the rest of the mileage under your legs you have to push yourself to hit that pace. But the payoff is huge. For the two prior marathons I had run I fell apart in the last 5-10K. But last year, once I hit the 32K mark I could feel it in my legs that I would finish stong. The final 3K were my fastets splits of the day, felt like I was sprinting to the finish. The remainder of my splits were pretty consistent.
For an AGer I think this plan is excellent, but understand that my only reference for comparison is Higdon plans. The experience was more than enough for me to give it another go, just started the cycle again this Monday to get ready for Boston.
So I’m just starting to use this plan for a spring marathon. Anyone use it previously or read through it and have any opinions. Compared to most plans its (for AGers, vs elite) shorter long runs, and more intensity.
I admit I didn’t follow the Hanson’s plan exactly, but I did go through a 12-week ‘test’ phase in between Pfitz 70mpw programs where I cranked up intensity and dramatically shortened the long runs as per the Hanson plan to mostly 16 milers and a few 18 milers. My mileage dropped as well, to about 15 mpw less than the Pfitz 18/70 plan (so about 40-50mpw avg compared to 55-60 avg for Pfitz.)
At least for me, it was total disaster. It actuallybecame clearly obvious to me that I was going to have a total fail at the marathon distance as early as 6 weeks into the plan, as my long runs didn’t get any faster despite me getting faster at shorter distance workouts. By the time race day rolled around, I didn’t even make an attempt to go for a PR, as there was no possible way I could do it based upon test times during the prior weeks.
I’m sure it works for some, but for me, I definitely NEED the big mileage of Pfitz (or other programs) to succeed at marathon racing, even at my mediocre speeds (3:11ish marathon.) I can get by on lower mileage/high intensity training for half marathon and below, but in teh marathon, in miles 22-26 where it really counts, I lose any ability to hammer at my PR pace if I don’t have the mileage base to support it. I was actually shocked at how badly I performed in training and racing without those 20+ mile long runs.
I also think it’s a bit different for the professional Hanson runners. Brian Sell said he rarely ran more than 18 miles in a single run, but he ran 140+ miles per week during his entire marathon training cycle. Heck, if I ran 140+mpw, I’d be confident with an 8 mile max long run - I’d still be on track for some PR results! (I’d have to do that 8 mile run like 3-4x/day to get that mileage.) I suspect I’d do fine if I kept Pfitz volume of 70+mpw but capped the LRs a la Hanson.
I’ve always followed Pfitz’s Advanced Marathoning book. My best is 2:40 using his 18 week plan.
Question… I’m planning on using this plan for a Spring marathon, but will be a couple of weeks shy of 18 by the time I’m ready to start. I could use the 12 week plan, but it’s fairly aggressive in the build, and I’m coming off an injury. So, I’m considering using a combination of the two plans to make a 15 week plan. My thoughts were to use longer Mesocycle 1 from the 18 week plan, then transition to the 12 week plan for the remainder to gain the missing weeks back.
What do you think of that approach?
Have you ever tried the 12 week plan? What kind of differences did you notice?
Thanks.
I haven’t tried the 12 week plan. I see the 12 week plan as great if you are already in great shape. Sounds like you may not be in top form since you are coming off an injury. I like your idea though. Mesocycle 1 is the base/strength building stage so don’t skimp on that. Your speed can develop more quickly than endurance - at least in my experience. So I would follow the 18 week schedule mesocycle 1 and probably 2. Then introduce a shortened version of the speed training cycles. The marathon is an aerobic event - the more strength and endurance you can build the better. And 15 weeks is plenty of time to do that. At least that’s my two cents.
I have used modified a version of it and had success with it. I used it on a 50+ mpw plan.I have been a runner a for 43 years and at times have run fast marathons on 100 plus mpw, although that was half a life ago. I have seen people break 2:40 on as little as 70 mpw using versions of it. I plan on using a modified version to run Boston in a two years at age 60
For most age groupers and especially older runners it makes a lot more sense as you can get more consistent mileage with reduced injury risks. I talked to someone the other day who is running a marathon on 40 miles a week with a 20-22 mile run in weekly. That is half the mileage. with the Hanson Plan they can get that 16 miler and a good 7-10 mile marathon pace run weekly which is something that probably is something that will be valuable. I think one point is consistency year round. Now of course you take breaks after races or off season, but a solid running plan prior to starting the build up will also ensure success. It’s also not as radical as a lot of the principles in the other plans are there but they try to get that weekly long run miles in the pace run and then run 16 milers to supplement it.
The Hanson’s plan emphasizes goal pace and running the long run on tired legs. They want you to get used to running your marathon goal pace by throwing a steady diet of tempo runs at you. The tempos can get up to 10 miles total. You’re conditioning your legs to run the pace you want during the marathon. The workouts serve to tire you out for the long run. Their thought is the last 16 miles of the race are the toughest so they try to simulate that by limiting the long run to 16 miles and doing it on tired legs.
It’s definitely an interesting approach. I’ve always followed Pfitz’s Advanced Marathoning book. My best is 2:40 using his 18 week plan. Under Pfitz’s plan you do tempo runs, mid-week long runs, and Sunday long runs. Eventually the temp runs turn into speed intervals starting at 600 meters and moving up to mile repeats. I was always on pace to run my goal of 2:37 only to fade in the last 6-8 miles of the race. I never hit the wall but I had difficulty maintaining 6:00 pace after 18 miles or so. When researching other training plans I saw the Hanson’s plan emphasized goal pace runs and doing the long run on tired legs to simulate the last miles of the marathon. So I’m actually going to use the Hanson’s training for my next marathon. Maybe I’ll be able to hold on for a little while longer and finally go sub 2:40.
I am very interested in how you’ll do. Please let us know.
Also, how many mpw are you planning on running?
Thanks.
I used a modified Hanson’s plan last year to qualify for Boston @ 2:54…I was leery of the 16 mile thing. However, I’m going to stick to the Hanson’s Advanced plan for Boston in the spring and follow it to a tee! My best advice to to put a lot of effort into the speed workouts and Tempo (Marathon Pace) runs…I think those are key to this plan. Those will be very tough workouts on tired legs and you’ll doubt yourself a bit on whether you can hold that pace in the marathon but it does work.
So I’m just starting to use this plan for a spring marathon. Anyone use it previously or read through it and have any opinions. Compared to most plans its (for AGers, vs elite) shorter long runs, and more intensity.
I admit I didn’t follow the Hanson’s plan exactly, but I did go through a 12-week ‘test’ phase in between Pfitz 70mpw programs where I cranked up intensity and dramatically shortened the long runs as per the Hanson plan to mostly 16 milers and a few 18 milers. My mileage dropped as well, to about 15 mpw less than the Pfitz 18/70 plan (so about 40-50mpw avg compared to 55-60 avg for Pfitz.)
At least for me, it was total disaster. It actuallybecame clearly obvious to me that I was going to have a total fail at the marathon distance as early as 6 weeks into the plan, as my long runs didn’t get any faster despite me getting faster at shorter distance workouts. By the time race day rolled around, I didn’t even make an attempt to go for a PR, as there was no possible way I could do it based upon test times during the prior weeks.
I’m sure it works for some, but for me, I definitely NEED the big mileage of Pfitz (or other programs) to succeed at marathon racing, even at my mediocre speeds (3:11ish marathon.) I can get by on lower mileage/high intensity training for half marathon and below, but in teh marathon, in miles 22-26 where it really counts, I lose any ability to hammer at my PR pace if I don’t have the mileage base to support it. I was actually shocked at how badly I performed in training and racing without those 20+ mile long runs.
I also think it’s a bit different for the professional Hanson runners. Brian Sell said he rarely ran more than 18 miles in a single run, but he ran 140+ miles per week during his entire marathon training cycle. Heck, if I ran 140+mpw, I’d be confident with an 8 mile max long run - I’d still be on track for some PR results! (I’d have to do that 8 mile run like 3-4x/day to get that mileage.) I suspect I’d do fine if I kept Pfitz volume of 70+mpw but capped the LRs a la Hanson.
Hansons plan is much more then just 16 mile LR’s and if you want to try Hansons plan, then don’t stray from it. You most likely performed poorly in the end because you didn’t follow their plan and didn’t stress your legs enough just like Dufflite eluded too. They want the LR to feel like the last 16 miles of the marathon and not the first 16 miles. I know of a guy that runs a sub 2:30 using Hanson’s method and swears by it.
Brian Sell was averaging 20 miles per day per week for weeks at a time and rarely ran over an 18 mile long run? I don’t see why he would do that. Hanson’s LR plan has more to do with limiting the LR to 25-30% of the total weekly mileage as well as staying under 2.5 to 3 hrs on that run. If you are an elite marathoner and running 100 plus miles per week, you can most certainly run further then 16 miles for your LR on their plan. The 16 mile LR is more for your average AG’er.
I began to use it this fall for a Jan marathon where I was aiming to take my PR down from 3:13 to sub-3:00. All was going well but I screwed up my IT Band doing other stuff as well as not stretching, rolling, icing enough. I was feeling good about the plan though, and was sticking easily with the speed work and tempo runs. Nothing felt impossible. My advice would be, stick just to the plan and don’t do other strenuous activities (I know, I know, I was dumb but it was doing stuff with my kids and it was hard to tell them no) and I would think it will work well. So do exactly what it says, no more, no less and focus on recovery (stretching, rolling, icing etc) to avoid over-use injuries.
I may have another go if I can heal fully, possibly for a May marathon but more likely next fall for Jan 14.
But I was enjoying it and felt it was getting me to my goal.
I obviously didn’t stress my legs hard enough doing my version of the Hanson’s plan. I also agree that some strong runners have used it with great effect.
Still, it’s true that Brian Sell rarely ran of 20 miles in a single run for his Olympic marathon trials and race. I followed it quite closely as there was a lot of press about it. Had he been doing the typical 20-24 mile long runs on a regular basis, there would be no difference between his training and typical high mileage marathon training plans that usually have a 16-mile fast run. (Pfitz has a 16 miler with 8 miles or so at half-marathon pace.)
The key selling point of the Hanson’s plan was exactly the absence of 20 mile runs, which was very unusual news when it came out for elite marathon training. As said though, I do personally think this limitation matters a lot less once you’re in elite training volume, which is usually 100 (or 140) miles per week. AGers might be able to do ok with it to, but for sure, I myself do better with bigger-mileage plans for the marathon, and I wouldn’t be surprised if most AGers would as well given that the marathon limiter is usually not leg speed, but avoiding any sort of slowdown in the final 6 miles.
What’s up? Does Jim and Fred have you scared or something? 
jaretj
I’ve used it and liked it - but for me - I need longer runs in my legs. If I need to compress my schedule and can’t afford the rest needed after a 21-23 miler then I’ll follow the Hanson’s plan.
Nah, but Sabine has me worried.
I used a modified Hanson’s plan last year to qualify for Boston @ 2:54…I was leery of the 16 mile thing. However, I’m going to stick to the Hanson’s Advanced plan for Boston in the spring and follow it to a tee! My best advice to to put a lot of effort into the speed workouts and Tempo (Marathon Pace) runs…I think those are key to this plan. Those will be very tough workouts on tired legs and you’ll doubt yourself a bit on whether you can hold that pace in the marathon but it does work.
what was your former plan and PR?
I obviously didn’t stress my legs hard enough doing my version of the Hanson’s plan. I also agree that some strong runners have used it with great effect.
Still, it’s true that Brian Sell rarely ran of 20 miles in a single run for his Olympic marathon trials and race. I followed it quite closely as there was a lot of press about it. Had he been doing the typical 20-24 mile long runs on a regular basis, there would be no difference between his training and typical high mileage marathon training plans that usually have a 16-mile fast run. (Pfitz has a 16 miler with 8 miles or so at half-marathon pace.)
The key selling point of the Hanson’s plan was exactly the absence of 20 mile runs, which was very unusual news when it came out for elite marathon training. As said though, I do personally think this limitation matters a lot less once you’re in elite training volume, which is usually 100 (or 140) miles per week. AGers might be able to do ok with it to, but for sure, I myself do better with bigger-mileage plans for the marathon, and I wouldn’t be surprised if most AGers would as well given that the marathon limiter is usually not leg speed, but avoiding any sort of slowdown in the final 6 miles.
http://store.hansons-running.com/odp/logs/sell.htm
Though thats a bit older than 2008 training, he does run 18+ miles often enough. Likewise, his daily volume is often 20+ miles, though split into two runs. When you run enough mileage you can somewhat get away with shorter long runs (In my opinion). Trouble is what the average runner considers high mileage is not high mileage.
I used a modified Hanson’s plan last year to qualify for Boston @ 2:54…I was leery of the 16 mile thing. However, I’m going to stick to the Hanson’s Advanced plan for Boston in the spring and follow it to a tee! My best advice to to put a lot of effort into the speed workouts and Tempo (Marathon Pace) runs…I think those are key to this plan. Those will be very tough workouts on tired legs and you’ll doubt yourself a bit on whether you can hold that pace in the marathon but it does work.
what was your former plan and PR?
I used the Higdon Advanced plan previously and ran a 3:27…but I blew up in that race. Boston will only be my 4th marathon.