Hamstrings vs Quads - Bike Fit Question

Triathlon Forum
1

Bought my bike 3 seasons ago and had a fitting at the
time of purchase.

For the most part it felt good and looked decent but
not anything anyone would consider overly aggressive,
just middle of the road as far as how low my front
end was set up.

The one issue I’ve had during rides is that I seem to
“slide” forward on the seat and then need to “scootch”
back so for the last race I decided to lower the front end.

Because I have a Felt B2, that means the front end
also rotated forward so my adjustment was lower
and further forward at the same time.

Naturally, I did not test this set up and just went straight
to the race.

2 things happened in the race (Sprint distance 15.5 mile bike):

1. More seat pain - Not horrible but it did get me to
lift my butt up off the seat once towards the end of
the race. Seemed like I rotated forward on the seat
based on where I was feeling the seat pressure.

2. Hamstring Cramp - I felt nothing during the race
but when I got off the bike my right hamstring wanted
to cramp and I had to stretch it a few times before
running.

I’m not a good runner so I know I need to hammer the
bike ride to get as much of a head start as possible
which means I usually get off the bike with hurting
legs but it’s usually more quad soreness right above
the knees.

Do you think I over did the low and long for my
body / fitness or should I train more to condition the
muscles now being used differently?

Am I simply getting a little more speed not the bike"
only to make it harder to run?

I do not have a side picture but hopefully this angle is
good enough.

http://i60.tinypic.com/tan8d5.png

2

Your height, inseam?
Crank arm length? - Your right leg appears over extended. Lower saddle and/or go with shorter crank arms.

3

Your height, inseam?
Crank arm length? - Your right leg appears over extended. Lower saddle and/or go with shorter crank arms.

6’ 2"

34" Inseam

Crank - Stock from Felt. No idea what it is right now but I can find out.

I think the picture is deceptive as I see what you mean. It makes it look like the right leg is fully extended but in reality it’s not.

4

How the heck can you tell that from that picture? I am genuinely curious.

5

Maybe the simpler question is, in general, will lowering the front end while leaving the seat static, increase the load on the hamstrings and reduce it from the quads?

6

It depends on your hips.

7

I say this without any sarcasm, animosity or emotion. I say it because you are one of all too many people who are trying to crowd-source an answer that is not properly crowd-sourceable. I’m telling you this straight because I love you. And by “you”, I mean, “you, the generic Slowtwitcher”. Ready? Here goes…

Get a proper bike fit, for goodness sakes! If your fit isn’t working for you, either go back to your original fitter, or find a fitter you can trust. It’s 2015 already, and we all know better, don’t we? Cheaping out on a proper bike fit makes no sense, now that there are great networks of competent fitters.

For about $300, you can get a Retul-certified fitter to take good care of you. And it’s really quite a good deal, for the money. You will likely spend much more on crap that’s hanging from a peg in a bike shop – what the retailers call, the “high-margin products” – than you will on a good bike fit.

So get to it, c’mon!

8

Crank - Stock from Felt. No idea what it is right now but I can find out.

I think the picture is deceptive as I see what you mean. It makes it look like the right leg is fully extended but in reality it’s not.
Got it, granted, educated guess from angle of photo.

Generally, hamstring and seat pain indicate saddle height/position issue (too high). Rotating forward is OK, but may not ultimately alleviate discomfort.

Options to try:

  1. Lower saddle.
  2. Raise front end.
  3. Shorter crank arms (maintaining saddle height and front end - aeroness).
  4. Combination of any/all above.
9

I say this without any sarcasm, animosity or emotion. I say it because you are one of all too many people who are trying to crowd-source an answer that is not properly crowd-sourceable. I’m telling you this straight because I love you. And by “you”, I mean, “you, the generic Slowtwitcher”. Ready? Here goes…

Get a proper bike fit, for goodness sakes! If your fit isn’t working for you, either go back to your original fitter, or find a fitter you can trust. It’s 2015 already, and we all know better, don’t we? Cheaping out on a proper bike fit makes no sense, now that there are great networks of competent fitters.

For about $300, you can get a Retul-certified fitter to take good care of you. And it’s really quite a good deal, for the money. You will likely spend much more on crap that’s hanging from a peg in a bike shop – what the retailers call, the “high-margin products” – than you will on a good bike fit.

So get to it, c’mon!

I agree because I love you all, too.

10

I say this without any sarcasm, animosity or emotion. I say it because you are one of all too many people who are trying to crowd-source an answer that is not properly crowd-sourceable. I’m telling you this straight because I love you. And by “you”, I mean, “you, the generic Slowtwitcher”. Ready? Here goes…

Get a proper bike fit, for goodness sakes! If your fit isn’t working for you, either go back to your original fitter, or find a fitter you can trust. It’s 2015 already, and we all know better, don’t we? Cheaping out on a proper bike fit makes no sense, now that there are great networks of competent fitters.

For about $300, you can get a Retul-certified fitter to take good care of you. And it’s really quite a good deal, for the money. You will likely spend much more on crap that’s hanging from a peg in a bike shop – what the retailers call, the “high-margin products” – than you will on a good bike fit.

So get to it, c’mon!

I agree with most of what you’re saying here…

Keep in mind that I already did get fit on day 1 and as I stated, it gave me a really good baseline.

But getting fit “1 time” will never work. It takes constant tweaks to reach optimal performance. These tweaks need to occur incrementally and over time so it’s really not practical to run back to the bike fitter every time you want to move something a hair this way or that way.

Granted, you can “tweak” your way into a disaster but that’s why it’s important to record your base line numbers to reset things if you go astray… and to go slow and limit the scope of each tweak.

So I don’t see this as crowdsourcing a fitting, I look at a forum like Slowtwitch as valuable source of collective knowledge that can be shared to the benefit of everyone. I really don’t think there’s 1 expert smarter than a collection of experts just as there is no “1 fit” for all people. A baseline fit is only a starting point and there are many opinions about how to best fit a person to a bike.

All things have cause and effect and I like to understand what’s happening when I adjust 1 way versus another i.e. lower position for less drag but at the expense of power or at the expense of hamstring fatigue, or at the expense of??? etc., etc.

Maybe my question and knowledge base are too basic but I think it helps people (it does for me) to better understand the basics of what is happening as they change things around on their bike.

So while I agree with you that a good fitting is a great starting point, I think you have a depth of knowledge that could be shared a bit to help out the less experienced like me and many others in a way that simply provides a better understanding of the basic dynamics.

One last comment. The myths that have been shattered on Slowtwitch are still being spread by 90%+ of the bike shops. I never correct these folks but it seems like “rotating mass” and cow tipping are destined to spouted as truisms for all of eternity.

11

I agree with most of what you’re saying here…

Keep in mind that I already did get fit on day 1 and as I stated, it gave me a really good baseline.

But getting fit “1 time” will never work. It takes constant tweaks to reach optimal performance. These tweaks need to occur incrementally and over time so it’s really not practical to run back to the bike fitter every time you want to move something a hair this way or that way.

I got fitted at the start of the spring, and I’m thinking it’s time for a tweak. But I’m going right back to my fitter so that he can keep track of what’s happening. I also want to make sure my position is recorded.

Usually, if you got a proper fit with a good bike fitter, tweaks are not going to cost you anywhere near the same as a full fit. Many of the best bike fitters would rather have you come in for free than have you tweak your own position.

View it as being under the care of a doctor who wants to monitor your progress.

So I don’t see this as crowdsourcing a fitting, I look at a forum like Slowtwitch as valuable source of collective knowledge that can be shared to the benefit of everyone. I really don’t think there’s 1 expert smarter than a collection of experts just as there is no “1 fit” for all people. A baseline fit is only a starting point and there are many opinions about how to best fit a person to a bike.

It’s getting better and better out there. Good fitters are easier to find, and their methodologies are starting to converge to a standard process. I like what I’m seeing from the better fitters.

All things have cause and effect and I like to understand what’s happening when I adjust 1 way versus another i.e. lower position for less drag but at the expense of power or at the expense of hamstring fatigue, or at the expense of??? etc., etc.

Do you know your joint angles, and where they sit in the normal ranges? What’s your “knee forward of foot”, and what is your range of hip angle? Where do you have some play to move things around? Are you maxxed out on any of the joint angles?

Maybe my question and knowledge base are too basic but I think it helps people (it does for me) to better understand the basics of what is happening as they change things around on their bike.

So while I agree with you that a good fitting is a great starting point, I think you have a depth of knowledge that could be shared a bit to help out the less experienced like me and many others in a way that simply provides a better understanding of the basic dynamics.

Well, that’s what I’m trying to do. When I needed a fit, I went to an expert. He took good care of me. And I will defer to his judgement, as I would to any person who’s spent time and money learning something better than I ever could.

The advice you might get from the ST crowd might be amazing or it might be total crap. You won’t always be able to know which of those it is.

One last comment. The myths that have been shattered on Slowtwitch are still being spread by 90%+ of the bike shops. I never correct these folks but it seems like “rotating mass” and cow tipping are destined to spouted as truisms for all of eternity.

Haha… How about “standover height”? :slight_smile: Yes, good point, we’re indeed lucky to have Slowtwitch.

Thanks, Dan, if you’re listening out there!