Ok…I know there are tons of threads out there about suits and potential benefits.
Little background:
Im considering the pacific coast tri this summer in Newport beach. Water temps historically are highest in sept when the event is held. Ranges are 64-72 historically.
This brings me to my first question:
Its a .5 mile swim, worst case scenario low 60 deg water with event starting at 7 am or so.Other than just a regular swim suit, I Was considering some of the Roka sim trunks…is that enough?
Second question:
I read a lot about the extra float you get with a wetsuit. How much different are triathalon suits from surfing suits in regard to float. The amount of float I think one gets with a high end 3/2 surfing wetsuit is not very significant. Looks like tri suits are 5mm in some areas which may be the reason for the float.
Was hoping a surfer could chime in here…
On your second point, tri wetsuits which are mostly 5mm in the body will have more buoyancy than a 2-3mm surf wetsuit. However, the biggest difference is the rubber in tri wetsuits are designed to be very flexible around the arms and shoulders in particular to allow a normal stroke that is not restricted by the suit. A surf wetsuit will not be nearly as flexible in the arms and shoulders, especially a surf suit with long arms. If the swim in only 0.5mi then you should be fine with a surf wetsuit if you really don’t want to spend the money on a tri wetsuit. Anything longer I would definitely consider getting a tri wetsuit. The biggest difference between a surf and tri wetsuit is more to do with the materials and flexibility than the buoyancy.
I surf although not very often. Surf wetsuits are thinner and bare neoprene. No they don’t really provide much buoyancy. Tri wetsuits are 5mm and covered with rubber for best hydrodynamics. They also have neoprene panels in just the right places to help with buoyancy and to help maintain correct body position while swimming. Unlike surfing wetsuits, these are specifically designed to make you a faster swimmer.
They help so much with buoyancy and body position that they literally allow poor swimmers to complete a 1.2 or 2.4 miles swim, who would otherwise be unable to swim more than 100 or 200y in fresh water. In salt water swimming is easier and wetsuits again help less that they do in fresh water.
The poorer swimmer one is, the more the wetsuit helps. Good swimmers benefit from a wetsuit too, but to a lesser degree.
Newport beach? So ocean swim? Have you ever swam in fresh water? It is more difficult because your body is less buoyant in fresh water, right? That difference is approximately the difference between wearing a wetsuit and not wearing a wetsuit.
Again, it all depends on how good a swimmer you are. If you are, and in salt water to boot, the wetsuit will help but only minimally. If you are not a good swimmer, it could help a lot.
EDIT: how could I forget. If you decide to wear a wetsuit, go and swim in it a few times prior to your race! Trust us.
Whoa! At those temperatures I’d need it just to stay warm!
Surfers are not afraid of cold. Many in So Cal are out there in just a swimsuit and rash guard, in mid 60s, and not keeping warm by swimming. Most of the time is spent sitting on the board waiting for the wave. Or underwater, figuring out which way is up, then getting back up on the board. Personal experience speaking.
I need to go check one of those tri wetsuits out. Just to see the composition…
Any takes on the Roka trunks? .5 mile swim.
I have a Roka wetsuit and Roka Sim shorts. The sim shorts are certainly faster in the pool (only place I’ve used them) than just jammers. How much faster…hard to say…maybe 5-10 seconds per 100. They certainly feel quite a bit faster. So for a .5 mile swim, if you get 10 sec per 100, you are going to save ~80 seconds. I think that is probably your best case scenario. I think that the Sim shorts are about $60 - $80, so you are basically paying $1 per second. You’ll have to decide if it’s worth it.
The Sim shorts will certainly be a lot faster to take off than a full suit. I don’t think that you “need” to go out a buy a full wetsuit unless you want to. The distance is pretty short and you are no stranger to cold water, so you will likely be fine in whatever you decide. However, if you do decide to buy a full suit, do your research and try to decide if you are going to stick around for a while doing races. If so, you may be much happier that you bought a better suit than buying an entry level suit that you will want to replace not far from now. It is a little bit of personal preference, but there seems to be a lot of new people that end up buying something like a Xterra Vortex at a big discount (don’t pay full ticket for a Vortex!) but quickly tire of them and go to buy something better.
I have a pair of the Roka’s. Really like them for working out instead of a pull bouy. As a FOP swimmer, when racing, I usually used a DeSoto Speed Tube bottom and Speed Vest top, unless the water was really cold. Then I used a DeSoto full T1 Bibjohn bottom and T1 First Wave top. In your case you might consider a pair of Roka’s and one of the DeSoto Speed Vests. They make an excellent swimming combination in cool water.
they literally allow poor swimmers to complete a 1.2 or 2.4 miles swim, who would otherwise be unable to swim more than 100 or 200y in fresh water. …
The poorer swimmer one is, the more the wetsuit helps. Good swimmers benefit from a wetsuit too, but to a lesser degree.
agreed with your 2nd point. i’m a crappy swimmer and wetsuits help me a lot. or they used to back before i’d given up altogether.
that said, your first point is an exagerration, at least for what i’ve experienced. i was always slow and the wetsuit made me able to swim fater, easier, but i wouldn’t say it changed how far I could swim more than marginally.
it did make me more confident in the early/rough phases of the swim start, knowing that i could naturally float more than if it was just me many my speedo.
A long sleeve triathlon wetsuit is worth about 6-10sec./100m, so you are looking at probably more than a minute of savings. The swim shorts would be less than 1/2 that.
Wetsuits provide both flotation and friction reduction. The silicone covered outer skin of a tri wetsuit has 97% less friction drag than skin* (that’s why many have long sleeves…less drag during the entry/glide).
It’s a race, if you have access to a good wetsuit, use it.
*Friction drag (aka skin drag) is only a portion of total drag; most is pressure drag from the wake you form.
I have to go check them out. I have hard time believing the time savings but you guys are the experienced ones…
Right now considering the roka trunks and maybe that T1 speed vest top. Still will be $250 just for that set up if I go with it. The T1 speedvest top at $180 seems pricey. Shorts not so bad at $90. But I could likely use both pieces for surfing at a later timeframe…
Read some threads that the speed vest rides up and yes that sounds annoying.
The swim part will be my only advantage in this short race…Im sure I will get passed pretty quickly on the bike and definitely the run…
Tri wetsuits have a silicone-coated neoprene exterior. It’s quite fragile (prone to tears from fingernails), and would get ruined pretty fast if you surfed in it.
You can probably rent a good wetsuit for $50 for the week from a local tri shop. You’ll want to get used to it before race day.
For my first two years of doing triathlons, I didn’t wear a wetsuit, and my swim speeds were: 1:35, 1:37, 1:36, 1:38
I got a wetsuit the morning of the last tri in 2011, and since then my swim speeds have been: 1:16, 1:23, 1:23, 1:31 (rough weather), 1:32 (rough weather), 1:24, 1:19, 1:21, 1:22, 1:27, 1:26, 1:22
So my overall averages look like:
No wetsuit: 1:37.5
Wetsuit: 1:23.8
Granted I’m in better shape now than I was in 2011, but the first race I did in a wetsuit (even never having worn one before) was night-and-day. You float ridiculously high and you go fast without trying hard. The first time I wore one I was floating so high I felt like I was paddling a boat. They slow you down a bit in transition, but they also let you wear all your race gear (and bib) underneath. Previously I’d either been wearing a singlet (and feeling it catch some drag as I swam) or putting one on in T1 (greatly slowing me down in T1).
Ahare, you using a sleeveless or full?
Also, what do u mean by singlet?
Like you know coming from swimming background, you like to ‘feel’ the water, especially your arms but open water is prob different story b/c you cant feel much of anything in the lumpy ocean.
Ok…I know there are tons of threads out there about suits and potential benefits.
Little background:
Im considering the pacific coast tri this summer in Newport beach. Water temps historically are highest in sept when the event is held. Ranges are 64-72 historically.
This brings me to my first question:
Its a .5 mile swim, worst case scenario low 60 deg water with event starting at 7 am or so.Other than just a regular swim suit, I Was considering some of the Roka sim trunks…is that enough?
Second question:
I read a lot about the extra float you get with a wetsuit. How much different are triathalon suits from surfing suits in regard to float. The amount of float I think one gets with a high end 3/2 surfing wetsuit is not very significant. Looks like tri suits are 5mm in some areas which may be the reason for the float.
Was hoping a surfer could chime in here…
JF
I’m a surfer who raced pool as a kid. These days I ocean swim and occasionally tri. In general I like to avoid wetsuits (surfing or swimming) and many of the ocean swims I do will not allow them if you want your time to count. So, I’m not an avid wetsuit user but I have one (Blue Seventy, few years old, full suit) which I use in tri swims. In general my experience is:
A tri/swim wetsuit is a big advantage, even for a strong swimmer. It changes your body position in the water a lot, lifts your hips up etc.Totally different to a surf suit.
The longer the race, the more meaningful the wetsuit becomes. Short races - it can be marginal. Longer races, the mechanical and hydraulic advantages become more and more real.
Just wearing shorts would be feasible in a short race like 0.5m for me. But I don’t usually swim in very cold water. Water temp and comfort would be the main question for me if faced with a race like yours.
Singlet = spandex fairly tight tri top (I think). My wetsuit is full sleeves and legs, and is probably a bit big for me, as it seems a bit looser than other people’s. I never have to struggle to get it off
All these swims were open water. The “rough weather” ones were in pretty ocean-like weather, including one I was surprised they let us swim at all.
Rent a wetsuit if you don’t want to buy one. It’s worth it! I’ve never used the shorts but think the neoprene shorts are all gimmicky. To compare I went 25 min in a HIM last year in a wetsuit and 31 this year without in a 2 piece tri suit. Both swims were lake swims. The first was an out and back and the second wasn’t so take that into consideration. I think in a half mile it’d probably save me about 2 minutes wearing one
Why not pick up a used and older quickjohn-style suit? Obviously not as fast as a full suit or longjohn, but will keep your core warm and will definitely give you some significant buoyancy/speed, also comes off very easily. Do a search for Quintana roo quick john / sleeveless on ebay ( or here on the classifieds)- many around $25 ( also some longjohns)
