Would you say a half marathon is more similar to a half marathon or a full marathon? Jack Daniels doesn’t really include half marathon training plans in Daniels’ Running Formula but just advises to train for it like a 10k but with a few more long runs.
Assuming someone has a good history of consistent mileage, would you say this is a good plan? Focusing more on intervals and tempo work as opposed to marathon pace work and long runs?
Cool, I’m more worried about executing a good half. I’ve never specifically targetted a half, generally just use them as a B race in prep for something more important/longer.
I’ve run a couple good full marathons, but am hoping a 10k PR yesterday will translate well to a good half in 3 weeks.
Would you say a half marathon is more similar to a half marathon or a full marathon? Jack Daniels doesn’t really include half marathon training plans in Daniels’ Running Formula but just advises to train for it like a 10k but with a few more long runs.
Assuming someone has a good history of consistent mileage, would you say this is a good plan? Focusing more on intervals and tempo work as opposed to marathon pace work and long runs?
Marathon is like 4x harder than HM, not just 2x the distance. I have never blown up in a HM. I’ve blown up in 1/3rd of my marathons, even when I ran 70mpw.
I know the change from half marathon to full, just wondering the correlation from 10k to half.
I’ve run a few good fulls and a couple decent halfs just on marathon training. Hoping to run a better than decent half on mostly 10k training.
I guess my question should have been phrased, “Who would win a half marathon, a 10ker or a marathoner?”
Hard to say at the pro level since the leg speed is huge.
At the amateur level however, the vast majority of folks who train for and run marathons will crush their same selves had they been only training for 10k, even with a lot more speedwork.
Ok, going further, does 10k training and about 50mpw beat a lack of speed work but 60mpw?
No.
I think you should just train, seriously. Find a goal and train for it. These endless hypothetical questions are just that.
And just because I’m in the mood to humor you, there is no 10k runner who will run 50mpw + speedwork but then *really *train for a marathon by just upping to a measly 60mpw, even if there was speedwork.
That 50mpw 10k runner would run 80-100mpw with speedwork (albeit less of it) if they were training for the marathon at the same level of ability that they would for the 10k. The volume increase for marathon is significant, even if the overall paces are slower.
These endless hypotheticals are what Internet message boards are all about!
And in the spirit of “Find a goal and train for it”, that was the spirit of the initial question. The half marathons an odd distance, they don’t race it in the Olympics, very few training plans for the specific distance are written, etc. I know the building blocks of a good marathon training plan and of a good 10k or 5k training plan. Was just solciting opinions on where people think the half falls between them?
Glover’s competitive runners handbook has some good half plans. They focus on 15-18 mile long runs and longer threshold type speed work. They are also pretty big mileage
I’d say from a training perspective, it’s probably more like a 10K for you. Especially since you’re a pretty fast dude, IIRC (marathon pr sub-2:50, right?). The pace probably falls somewhere in between, but it’ll feel more like a 10K on the suffering scale, I think. You’ll be running pretty hard the entire time. It’s not like a marathon where the first 1/2 isn’t easy, but you’re not pressing it either. If it were me, I’d be training like a 10K for the most part, throwing in some long runs (say 12-15mi) and perhaps tweaking my tempo runs to be a little longer. I’d also make sure my long runs included some tempo/HM pace work.
As an aside, I think it’s a shame the HM isn’t included in the Olympics. Great race distance and would provide a stepping stone for track athletes to step up to before moving onto the full marathon.
I haven’t run a full for 2 yrs due to knee injury, but since surgery my training has only been 10k. Since starting in Jan this year my longest training runs were slow 1.5 hr, based on lots of Maf training I now have a 10 k time of 38:xx, prior. The secret for was 2x speed session per week atsub max speed repeats. I surprised my self with a HiM time 1:27. All because of this 10 k training. Training at speed with repeats I have learnt to feel what fast one mile and one km repeats fee like so races slower than 10k feel like a tempo threshold pace. I even manage a 15k time sub 60mins…
My two cents worth training for 10k then doing a HIM not too much adjustment required …for me
I guess my question should have been phrased, “Who would win a half marathon, a 10ker or a marathoner?”
That was actually exactly the situation at the Swiss HM Championships in 2010: Viktor Röthlin (Swiss marathon record holder, multiple Olympian, 2007 World Championships bronze medallist, 2006 European Championships silver medallist, 2010 European Championships gold medallist, PB 2:07:23) and Christian Belz (Swiss 10K record holder, Olympian, a little less decorated than Röthlin, PB 27:53.16) were competing.
They ran together all of the race; about 3 km from the finish, Belz seemed to get away, but one km from the finish Röthlin caught up again.With a few hundred metres to go, Röthlin outkicked Belz to win. If you can watch this: http://www.internettv.ch/sport/laufsport/swiss-runners-magazin-21-09-2010 At about 14:10, Belz gets away, at 14:30 you can see the gap he has opened on Röthlin, 14:47 shows how Röthlin catches up, and at 14:54 you see the kick.
So, to answer your question: “It would be very close”
We had a 10 mile race in da Bronx yesterday. It’s a more normal distance elsewhere than in NYC, I’d never raced it, I’m training for the NYCM, I was very happy with my results. Were I you, I’d see if I can find a couple of those. I have back-to-back HMs coming within a month, I believe I will have a huge PR at one or both. I did a 20 miler a week ago. Some 15s in August.
I did train for a half this past Spring running only 10ks and was hammered around 12 - 12.5 miles. My training hadn’t been good, there was a lot of NRR going on, I couldn’t seem to finish my longs, a week before, I was desperate and gave up trying to lay down the elusive LR and just ran 10k every day for a week. It will get you close to the end, the rest you’ll have to dig very deep.
Much closer to a 10K., but still need the miles in your training to spend the extra time on your feet. Marathon is a whole different animal with energy stores running out and nutrition/hydration becoming a factor.
2:43 marathon PR, 10k PR of 34:28 this past weekend.
For marathon training I usually average about 60mpw, but that’s a true weekly average. So over and 18-20 week training block it’s 60mpw, including some weeks down in the 30s or 40s due to travel, small tapers for other races, etc and then some weeks over 70. Marathon training is always a steady diet of tempo work, marathon pace stuff, and mileage.
I ran Boston in the spring and Bay State last fall, so with two marathons in the last 12 months I have a good mileage base. For a variety of reasons I wasn’t going to have the time to train for a full this fall. So I am targetting the Smuttynose half, in the month or two immediately after Boston my mileage was low, probably 30-40mpw, but has been about 50mpw for the past 2-3 months.
The only times I’ve race a half have been as part of a marathon build. I’ve done a fair amount of repitition and interval work and it paid off for the 10k, I was 40 seconds faster than last year on the same course, and last year I ran the 10k leading into my marathon PR so I was in good shape.
Looking forward to seeing how the increased speed but decreased mileage effects the half. I’ve done a few ~12 milers, and had some good tempo workouts like 8x1 mile at tempo w/1 min rest, and tempo pace is basically half marathon pace.
And yes, I agree I wish the HM was in the Olympics as well.
Would you say a half marathon is more similar to a half marathon or a full marathon? Jack Daniels doesn’t really include half marathon training plans in Daniels’ Running Formula but just advises to train for it like a 10k but with a few more long runs.
Assuming someone has a good history of consistent mileage, would you say this is a good plan? Focusing more on intervals and tempo work as opposed to marathon pace work and long runs?
Marathon is like 4x harder than HM, not just 2x the distance. I have never blown up in a HM. I’ve blown up in 1/3rd of my marathons, even when I ran 70mpw.
this scares me… first open mary in january and i’m struggling to get above 30mpw injury free!
A Full? Did I read that correctly? You will need to slow down your pace and get the mileage in. No matter how slow you run, as long as you get the mileage in, everything else should fill in by January. Are you on an 18 week Plan?
Three weeks ago, I was 3 - 4 miles into a 15. Was already struggling and wondering if I could get it done. I’m about to pass this large woman and I realized I should not. I didn’t even believe I could run as slow as she was running. But I could run that slow and about 2 miles later, when she started to walk, I was all set. Ran right on by her, a lil Thank You. Correctly paced, got the 15 done nice and clean. It set the stage for everything that happened after.