So, there have been two pretty well publicized incidents in the BJJ / MMA community this week.
First - a club holds an internal competition; a brown belt member (40+ hobbyist - one level below BB) gets a match with a 20 something black belt
The black belt is clearly far better, gets an advantageous position from which the brown belt is not going to escape but rather than waiting for them to submit rips the submission causing multiple lower leg fractures. He 100% had the win, he only needed to wait or apply pressure slowly but the leg breaks were the consequence of that particular technique (or destroying acl / mcl and pcl - guy was lucky with fractures)
Second incident is former UFC fighter rampage Jacksonâs son getting in a ring, slamming a guy to the ground who is clearly KOâd and then raining down 20 plus punches. Guy apparently flat lined and was seriously injured.
In the first instance, the guy who won, claims it was a fight, the opponent didnât tap and so he finished the technique.
The second was in a wrestling tournament and it clearly was not stopped and eventually multiple people had to pull Jackson son off the guy.
Could being in a tournament be a defense to assault. Could you still be charged with what in the UK would be grevious bodily harm if you destroyed someoneâs limb in a tournament
Not knowing this specific world, isnât that what Refs or Officials exist for? Safety first.
In the first circumstance, maybe a matter of seconds, so canât intervene fast enough. But still, expectations set and a close eye with knowledge of what could happen should prevent, right?
Short answer is, I think, yes, thereâs a certain level of defense against assault charges inherent in both competitors consenting to the competition. So long as the conduct of competitors is within the basic range of expectation for the tournament, you usually wouldnât see criminal charges for injuries incurred in the competition. Competitors usually also sign some sort of waiver indemnifying the tournament organizers.
That said, if the conduct that leads to an injury is well outside the normal agreed upon level of competition, or if itâs clearly due to negligence by the organizers or intent to injure or something like that, you can get criminal charges and civil claims. At least, thatâs seems to be the case here in the US.
Do you not agree to any sort of conduct agreement? Is it just a free for all? I would hope in an amateur tournament there is some kind of ground rules around not destroying life and limb like that. Everyone still needs to get up and go to work/tend to the family the next day.
In the mid '00s, Vancouver NHL player Todd bertuzzi was charged with assault for punching a player then driving his face in to the ice, causing a major concussion and broken vertebrae that ended his victimâs career. He plead guilty and received community service and a year suspension, and was then sued by the victim which was settled out of court.
It was not a wrestling tournament, it was an indy pro wrestling event in which Jacksonâs interruption was planned but the level of violence was not. He and the victim got into an altercation pre-event and Jackson took revenge. Even in the murky reality of pro wrestling I would think charges could be pursued. It was vicious and intentional and not scripted as it unfolded.
Incident #1: IMO, the BB should not face legal charges, but he should suffer some serious ostracization within the bjj community. He 100% should have known better, and doing this in an in-house competition is extra shitty.
Incident #2: I havenât seen the video, but that seems like potential for legal action.
In our litigious society, I fully expect lawsuits will follow soon. Be interesting to see what the arguments are.
In #1, canât fault either in the heat of competition. Competitors woudâve known thereâs a real chance of significant injury, to either athlete. However if black belt was clearly dominant he perhaps couldâve gone âslowerâ giving brown belt a chance to tap. That wouldâve also been better sportsmanship too.
#2 seems like a miss on the ref⌠not intervening soon enough.
I disagree with this. Heel hooks are known to be very dangerous in bjj, to the point where theyâre not even allowed in competitions at lower belt levels. Every black belt knows this. In a competition that is within an academy (so youâre competing with your own team/training partners), where a black belt is fighting a lower belt who is also much older than the BB - I donât buy the âheat of battleâ argument.
Yes, thatâs true. Itâs why I donât think legal action is appropriate in this case, even though the BBâs behavior was very poor, IMO.
Yes. All of this. The BB established a dominant/controlling position, with a joint manipulation that is known to do really serious damage. He absolutely should have gone slower. And in a friendly tournament with that disparity level and where heâs got that much control over a middle aged hobbyist, Iâd probably even expect the BB to say something: âDude, Iâve the got the heel hookâŚyou good? I donât want to nuke your knee.â
The difference between a competition adult black belt and a hobbyist brown belt is not far short of the Gulf between an adult white and adult black.
There are various rules of thumb like 10 year or 10 kilos is a belt. The black belt should have known as soon as they got access to the legs in the first ten seconds it wasnât an even match.
The video is in the reddit link above. I think he did it intentionally from his expression
On social media, Mr. Jacksonâs father said that Mr. Smith was âawake and stable.â
He said that before the show, Mr. Smith hit his son on the head and that his son was told he could get his âpaybackâ in the ring.
Quinton Jackson said he thought the attack was part of the show in which his son would be allowed to run in and interfere with the match as a way of resolving the earlier confrontation.
Mr. Jackson called the attack in the ring bad judgment âand a work that went wrong.â He said that as a mixed martial arts fighter, and not a professional wrestler, his son should not have been involved in the event on Saturday.
âI donât condone my sonâs actions AT ALL!â he said.
Mr. Jackson apologized on behalf of his son, who he said had suffered a concussion just days earlier, and said that he hoped Mr. Smith recovered quickly.
From the promoter: âWhat was supposed to be a planned and agreed-upon wrestling spot turned into a selfish, irresponsible act of violence against Mr. Smith,â it said. âThis egregious act is reprehensible and never should have occurred.â
Rampage Sr. not down with it.
Later, before entering the ring, Mr. Jackson can be heard warning on the livestream that his performance would not be scripted.
âThey told me to hit him, and just leave,â Mr. Jackson said. But, he added, âIâm telling you, Iâm going to hit him as many times as I can â watch.â