I am choosing between these 3 frames right now for riding on the towpath - have a line on some good deals on all of these frames and am wondering which one you guys think is best? I am leaning toward the Gunnar right now with the soma in second place - dont like the discs on the lemond and think the eyelets might come in handy if I ever want to commute by bike (have been unable to determine if the lemond has provisions for a rack/ panniers)
So which one would you get of the three?
Soma 631 steel, eyelets - heaviest and possibly weakest of the three but has something about it thats cool
Gunnar - 853 steel - made by waterford - something classic and beautifull about this - I think it has the eyelets
Lemond - 853 steel - not sure where its made? Probably pretty good but only comes with disc brakes which is a stupid decision to my mind since I dont want disc brakes so would be looking for last years frame. Heard issues with front wheel shudder during braking that put me off a bit.
found some more pros on the soma: “Another lower priced option are the SOMA frames. These are made with Reynolds 631 main triangles and double butted stays. They come from the same factory as Surly and are similar in concept (designed by locals but paid for/distributed by a national wholesaler) When we got the first SOMA frames in I was surprised to find they weighed only a little more than a Gunnar. We didn’t bother weighing them but I’d say the difference was maybe 1/4 pound for a 56cm. The SOMA’s also have more rack braze-ons (front and rear) and are better suited for touring than the Gunnars (the stays on the Gunnar are a bit too light for loaded panniers) The SOMA frames also have a little more tire clearance in back than the Gunnar. They retail for around $450 frame/fork. See: http://www.somafab.com/frames.html”
Discs are heavier, and an unfamiliar technology to me since I am used to rim brakes on bikes and have used them for years - discs seem unecessary for my needs.
discs work better in wet weather, and aren’t a lot heavier. Besides, if you are looking at steel frames with rack eyelets, are you really that worried about weight??
Nah - I’m just a luddite/ traditionalist I guess - maybe they are better but since I never had them and am perfectly happy with my rim brakes I say if it aint broke dont fix it - I have parts for rim brakes and 5 wheelsets for rim brakes I have 0 parts related to disc brakes. Also I’m not worried about weight but wouldn’t mind not building up a tank if possible - I love the ride of steel and usually slap ultegra and some other good parts on to get a pretty light bike - you feel weight on climbs and accelerations and faster = funner!
unless the gunnar is much more expensive it isn’t even a decision that requires thought IMO. I would go for the gunnar hands down. I had a chance to get one and passed for a surly. stupid.
I’ve got a Poprad from a few years ago - it’s a ton of fun. Feels fantastic even on Colorado singletrack (yes, I’m an idiot) with a steel fork, no less. Pre-disk brakes, so I can’t comment on that aspect. Love mine, though.
Well,
I have a Crosshairs and I got my wife a Double Cross recently. If you want a race bike, Gunnar’s the name, but from your original post it sounds like you want a commuter and for this, I’d recommend saving money and getting the Double Cross.
The wife’s bike is pretty nice. It’s got eyelets front and rear, and even low rider braze-ons on the fork so if you want to commute, you can outfit the thing with packs all around. Her bike’s sporting 32s with fenders and there’s some room left so if you like to ride marshmallows, you’ll be able to get them to fit.
I don’t know where you got your info, but the new Double Cross has Prestige front and sewer pipes rear: they don’t seem to be using 631 anymore. Fork is Prestige also.
My Crosshairs is way fancier, but it’s also twice the price. The welds are nicer (I didn’t say better or more reliable, I said nicer) and the paint job is hard to beat (“color of the month” is an all out Waterford job). I don’t know about the Gunnar fork (already had a straight blade unicrown made by IF with the right axle/crown and rake measurements).
The Double Cross runs a tad long (not unlike the Gunnar) so pick your size wisely.
Dre’
Edit:
I just checked. The Gunnar frameset will run you about $1000, whereas the Double Cross frameset can be delivered to your door for less than $400. Not quite the same league …
Depends on what type of deal you can get on the gunnar. I have a street dog in some fancy-schmancy, cinnamon candy over fine gold color of the month that is soooo badass. It’s funny that dre’s posted on this thread, it was one of his posts about his gunnar 3 years or so ago that got me to buy one (i think his is green?). Anyway, the gunnar is high zoot, in a grungy cool way. It’s my favorite bike out of my stable. Get one!
towpath - not sure if its spelled correctly is an old trail that oxen used to pull barges down a canal on - essentially a really long hardpack path that runs from New Brunswick to trenton and along the delaware river in NJ - great place to ride on since no cars and by water. There are some rough rocky sections on it though that I have gone over on my mountain bike and am hoping as I get fit and drop a bit of weight I can tackle them on a cross bike without damaging wheels etc…
I am about to pull the trigger on the Gunnar - the new somas are made out of crap steel - bad move on Somas part should have stuck with the reynolds 631 and I might have been a customer.
Huh?
Do you have any idea how to compare grades of steel across different brands? Or do you say this to agree with everybody else who think it’s a “no brainer” that the $1000 frameset is better(*) than the $400 frameset?
I really don’t care what you buy, but claiming Prestige is a downgrade over 631 is flat out wrong.
Dre’
(*) For what you intend to do, the features of the Soma do make it the “better” bike.
I haven’t done much research on prestige steel - I took the ‘sewer pipe’ rear triangle to mean heavy tubing - also I heard 631 was the same tubing as 853 just not welded as well or air hardened or something - is prestige good stuff? Whats it comparable to? I love hearing about steels and the making of bikes…
“Sewer pipe” is 4130 CrMo. Generic CrMo, if you wish. It’s not bad, it’s just not “technologically advanced”. If you look around, there’s custom builders who’ll sell a $2500 frame made of 4130. Steel is steel, for the most part. A thick tube will be heavier than a thin one (!), but physically identical tubes of 4130 and 853 will weigh the same. It’s just you could make the 853 tube thinner because the alloy is stronger.
The “old” Soma had 631 front triangle and 4130 rear. The new ones have Prestige front, with the same rear end. Prestige is made by Tange. 631 is Reynolds. Different brands. 631 is air hardened (i.e. the welds get stronger than the tube is originally). Prestige is heat treated so the whole tube has the qualities of the welds of 631 (not quite accurate, but you get the idea). Prestige is “between” 631 and 853. 631 is air hardened, Prestige is heat treated, 853 is heat treated and air hardened.
Anyway, yes, the steel on the Gunnar is better, the paint’s nicer and the welds are cleaner. This all comes at a price which is a tad over twice that of the Soma. You have to decide how important these things are. You shold really look at the features of the bikes with respect to intended use instead of deciding based on the properties of the steel alloy used in the fabrication (it really doesn’t matter: we’re talking 1/4 pound or something). The Gunnar is a 'cross bike, a racing bike. The Soma is a 'cross bike, but more of a touring bike. If you think you want panniers and fenders, the Soma will make your life easier. That’s my opinion anyway.
I’ve ridden all three briefly… none for an extended time. I think the Poprad was the most impressive, gunnar was good too, but felt heavy. the Soma did nothing for me.
Note: the road BB7’s calipers are not good enough with a road lever… I’d rather have a cantilever.
The lemond I can get at a good price is a tad large for me and is the most expensive.
The Soma I would have to buy new since I can’t find a good price or deal on one new or used. That might be a good sign about them.
The Gunnar I found is my size and is the cheapest of the three (and comes with a fork) by the time you add a fork to the other two.
(I am buying a frame, preferably used and will build it with the Ultegra group on my 853 steel road bike)
So my wallet likes the Waterford crosshairs. The poet/ adventurer in me is strangely drawn to the Soma but it will end up being $100 more than the Gunnar… The Lemond seems nice but the only good deal on a frame I can find is a 57cm thats being sold cause the original owner found the frame too big and had to downsize - I ride a 57cm Merlin Agilis, a 57cm litespeed saber and a 56cm KHS flite 800 - they all fit pretty well. The lemond is the most expensive of the three…
So the money is on the gunnar, the heart is kind of set on the soma and the poprad I’ve dismissed as having braking issues/ fit issues and being the most expensive option…
