Wait a minute, are you saying that Vermont produces some of its own electricity by burning wood?? At what power plants specifically? Does the wood burning just produce steam which they run through a turbine?
I’m no expert, but it is hard to believe that we are still doing this in 2021.
I didn’t know this either, but if you google “ Vermont biomass “ it appears to be common
All good to consider.
But in a larger context about those who consider it like this big, impossible task, consider how the U.S. infrastructure underwent two massive revolutions due to the ICE automobile. First to local paved roads when the first cars didn’t handle ruts, mud as well as animal-driven buggies with their big wheels. In 1904 there were like ~140 miles of paved roads in the U.S. By the 20’s there were 10’s of thousands of miles.
Then in the 40’s-70’s there was another revolution in rolling out high-speed interstates. A truly massive undertaking.
I think we can upgrade our electrical grid if we really want to.
What were the state and Federal tax rates when all of that happened?
To your point, most of this is completely doable. However, we basically have never had a lower capacity to fund infrastructure through tax revenues than we do now. We are only $22 trillion in debt, just sell infrastructure bonds. Should be a huge demand for 30 year 2% bonds;)
So to the extent we can put through what would be called “massive tax increases” that would be merely resetting taxes to historically normal levels, we could fund it. For example, we haven’t been able to increase the federal gas tax to fund highways in decades? If we increase fuel efficiency even more, we have even less tax revenue. What is the Biden tax plan for EVs to get them to contribute to the national charging infrastructure we need? It seems like the plan is to give out more incentives for people to buy EVs and then somehow all the infrastructure will be built for free.
We’ve spent trillions of dollars just to stabilize the Middle East and protect the oil supply.
I think we can manage to upgrade the electric system.
We’ve spent trillions of dollars just to stabilize the Middle East and protect the oil supply.
I think we can manage to upgrade the electric system.
We spent trillions out of the military budget in the Middle East, which both parties (especially the Republicans) always increase.
To upgrade the electrical system will require increasing other budgets, which either means increasing taxes, cutting military spending (which we are unable to do, because it is a domestic jobs program) or increasing the debt. Or some combination of all three.
So on the one hand it sounds simple, but the political reality of increasing taxes/cutting military spending/increasing debt is an entirely different story.
We’ve spent trillions of dollars just to stabilize the Middle East and protect the oil supply.
I think we can manage to upgrade the electric system.
infrastructure is supposed to be a broadly popular bi-partisan issue. Trump claimed it was a priority. Nothing happened over the past four years.
I am not blaming Trump, I am just observing that if this was such easy, low hanging fruit for the government to act on, why does it continue to go nowhere?
What were the state and Federal tax rates when all of that happened?
State depends on the state, obviously. And both Fed and state depends on your income level. So no easy answer.
But generally, effective median Fed. rates were I think lower in the 10s/20s, higher in the 50’s-70s.
It may take not only basic capability and transmission investments, but also a smarter system. It would be pretty complex, but you could setup charge rates for not only time of use, but also amount of demand. Most cars don’t need to charge up in 3 hours, they can take 12 hours to fill 5-10 kWh and that can be done on a 15 amp line.
Even better is the car that can act in place of storage systems like Power Walls. Charge up when cheap and if they are plugged in when the price is high they can sell it back. They are doing that locally now with electric school buses as a proof of concept. Couple all that with your AI driven personal assistant that tells the car not to sell the power because it knows that tomorrow you are taking a long road trip.
So It does appear, that in 2020 we had true driverless cars on the road.
Nah, not even close. I’m really, really impressed by Waymo, et al. But I’m talking about being able to handle the daily commute of most people from driveway to parking lot. We’re nowhere near to that. We’re just handling very limited use-cases. We’re 5-10 years out from being able to handle general all-purpose driving without special hand-holding. And ultimately not having to have someone behind the wheel. Because none of it makes a whole lot of sense in the big picture if you have to always have someone behind the wheel ready to take over.
Seems we first need to define some things.
Full Autonomy – NO DRIVER – right now, not really the direction of anyone for home use. But Waymo and Cruise have vehicles out that the feds have approved for driving around the appropriate cities. So if you live and work in Phoenix or San Fran (this year) you could schedule a car to pick you up at your front door and drop you off at work and their would be no driver, isn’t this what you want.
Driver Aid’s — this almost seems more like what you want. Not sure how close Tesla is with this. GM’s supercruise is close and Ultra cruise is claiming to do what you want https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32601018/gm-ultra-cruise-super-cruise-city-streets/
Now done as a drivers aid is a lot lower bar to pass for federal approval as it assumes someone is still paying attention.
But driverless full autonomy for customer purchase, not sure anyone is working on that - no one has approached the feds for this kind of approval. The cost side would be staggering.
No clue what hand holding you think is needed that Waymo or Cruise have not overcome (I don’t think either are highway approved at this point) I expect Waymo and Cruise to get highway approval or approval for more cities this year or next.
I think the individual use case scenarios are largely different. I was doing napkin math at say 50 km (30 miles) per day at an average of About 5km or 3miles per KWH. Of course we could debate the relative demand of a Model 3 in an Edmonton winter vs Sacramento, but for my use case scenario 10kwh discharged in 3 hours would be reasonable in terms of use case and secondary wiring etc.
This is part of the problem though, its a massive demand spike and everyone is going to have their own ideas as to what the reward/cost/convenience relationship is for their use case scenario. I’m Ok with putting an isolation switch on my dryer, two adults, no kids we’re… DILDO’s (Dual income little dog owners) most people are not.
I think in the aggregate if we are looking at replacing gasoline with electricity then a doubling or a 10kwh demand increase per SFH is something we really want to start planning for now.
Maurice
Charging your car overnight, will create a lower demand the running your AC during the day… The point your missing is delivery is not fixed, Everything in the electric grid is aimed at peak load, which happens during the day. The electric companies would love an increase in load in the evening’s so they could maintain their always on generators more which are more efficient, and would love to use their on demand generators less.
When calculating home use don’t look at commercial DC fast chargers, that won’t be installed at home’s.
You need more than that for a car because of how much it pulls at once but that’s basically what we’re doing depending on what they can actually get on our roof and what numbers they comeback with. But a 15kwh solar plus 3 or 4 power walls.
I had to estimate our usage for the car since we don’t have one yet along with really wanting a hot tub lol.
love the juxtaposition
buy a really efficient vehicle to help save the environment + buy one of the most inefficient appliances known to man
i guess it evens out?
OMG… Did not realize there are still folks out there that think the EV play is a green play. The one thing I will Credit Elon for he made people realize EV’s are fucking fun cars to drive, screw efficiency CRANK UP THE TORQUE… nothing like smooth quiet CONTINUES power no pause for a shift.
If its more green fine… if its faster and more fun… I am buying.
Yeah, I am not sure I understand your concern. Your average EV pulls around the same as central air conditioning, but they pull that power at night when total demand is much lower.
Personally I’m not concerned, I’m putting in a dual 200 amp (400 amp) service.
Here you have a few examples of daily cycle demand. Note Australia which has higher night time demand than daytime.
https://energymag.net/...energy-demand-curve/
As I said this isn’t a throw your hands up in the air, give up and go buy an f350. But it will be a problem that needs to be addressed.
Where are we going to get that extra capacity required? Is having a utility grid run 24/7 at peak demand a good thing? How are demand cycles different region to region and season to season? What is the feed stock profile for the KWH?
In terms of secondary distribution how do you supply say a 300 unit apartment with 300 semi-fast chargers without the ability to isolate loading?
If you have a 100 amp service and two EV’s are you Ok with isolating cooling or heat + dryer + stove…meaning you can watch tv and if lucky make toast while your cars are charging.
Honestly not being doom and gloom here, I find these problems both interesting and solvable. But they will exist at both the individual consumer/distribution level and at the utility/government level.
Maurice
And there we go, one thing I hate/love about this place. Is most people assume we are talking about America, then someone from another country starts posting about things, without stating they are not in America.
100amp service… not many homes built since 1970 only have 100 Amp service in the US. I have 3 meters at my house, the house main power, a 2nd meter for AC and third for my Car charger.
You wont be buying a Huge DC fast charger for your home, you have 8 hrs to charge a 220v will get you your daily capacity.
It may take not only basic capability and transmission investments, but also a smarter system. It would be pretty complex, but you could setup charge rates for not only time of use, but also amount of demand. Most cars don’t need to charge up in 3 hours, they can take 12 hours to fill 5-10 kWh and that can be done on a 15 amp line.
Already exists, a coworker just signed up for cheaper electricity as long as he uses at low demand, and if he draws to much during high demand he is really nailed, if he keeps his demand low during peaks its the normal rate. … and there are chargers you can set up to only charge when its cheap.
I see three parts to Tesla’s success that the majors didn’t pickup on until later. They were all trying it from the opposite direction.
Everyone else started with the Prius market instead of the Audi market. And if there is one constant on YouTube videos from EV enthusiasts it is complaining about third party chargers.
I see three parts to Tesla’s success that the majors didn’t pickup on until later. They were all trying it from the opposite direction.
Everyone else started with the Prius market instead of the Audi market. And if there is one constant on YouTube videos from EV enthusiasts it is complaining about third party chargers.
Its beyond 1 Tesla went Super Lux +$100k
a big yes to #2
The other thing is Tesla still is not making money at selling cars. All their profit is from selling the Carbon tax credits. Hell GM buys some of them, though many employees wish we would stop, it makes financial sense so those at the top keep doing it, for now.
Tesla has maybe 5 yrs to get money from those carbon credits than most OEM’s will have their own ev’s out there and wont need them.
The charging network is an interesting one and I have been on the very periphery of some conversations. But as a volt owner nothing like going to a public charger only to find its out of commission. I think the charging station play in the next 5 yrs will be an interesting one to watch.
The “one thing” you’ll credit Elon with? You’re a tough cookie.
OMG… Did not realize there are still folks out there that think the EV play is a green play.
An EV is generally “greener” than its ICE equivalent.
OMG… Did not realize there are still folks out there that think the EV play is a green play.
An EV is generally “greener” than its ICE equivalent.
Never bought one cause they were GREEN… only cause they are fun…
This statement has REAL World implications, as cars are calibrated to limit torque to get better emiles. One reason why you have modes as the EPA treats those differently than the Base configuration.
What were the state and Federal tax rates when all of that happened?
State depends on the state, obviously. And both Fed and state depends on your income level. So no easy answer.
But generally, effective median Fed. rates were I think lower in the 10s/20s, higher in the 50’s-70s.
And when was the “Eisenhower” Federal Interstate highway system built (which I am assuming was paid for with Federal funding)?
And what’s the biggest public infrastructure project since then? I hope its not the $15 billion fiasco of the “big dig” (central artery project in Boston).
Its amazing what we used to do, build superhighways and put men on the moon. I remember something recently about making America Great Again but I all I got was this lousy red hat.
What were the state and Federal tax rates when all of that happened?
State depends on the state, obviously. And both Fed and state depends on your income level. So no easy answer.
But generally, effective median Fed. rates were I think lower in the 10s/20s, higher in the 50’s-70s.
And when was the “Eisenhower” Federal Interstate highway system built (which I am assuming was paid for with Federal funding)?
And what’s the biggest public infrastructure project since then? I hope its not the $15 billion fiasco of the “big dig” (central artery project in Boston).
Its amazing what we used to do, build superhighways and put men on the moon. I remember something recently about making America Great Again but I all I got was this lousy red hat.
and Billions of miles of a boarder wall that only cost a few hundred dollars. … Its possible my dyslexia has mixed up that statement.
I see three parts to Tesla’s success that the majors didn’t pickup on until later. They were all trying it from the opposite direction.
Everyone else started with the Prius market instead of the Audi market. And if there is one constant on YouTube videos from EV enthusiasts it is complaining about third party chargers.
When you are making large margins on luxury vehicles and have a small user base, it is reasonable to be able to fund infrastructure.
However, when you have much lower margins on mass produced “Toyota corolla vehicles” and a subsequently much larger user base, the infrastructure funding is a little more tricky.
You can’t compare what Tesla has done to any of the majors, because they haven’t proven it to be financially or logistically viable at scale. Despite their huge market cap, they are about 5% of the volume of a major automaker.
Scaling up deployment of large things (like cars) is a lot different than scaling cell phones. And then of course really big things (like the electrical generating grid) become even harder to scale.