Drawing from Rappstar’s IMC thread, there have been some interesting comments about the benefits of a non-gluten or low-gluten diet even for folks who are not intolerant of gluten. Thoughts?
Just thought I’d throw out a new thread. I like bread and pasta, but i also try to eat alternative grains like quinoa, kamut berries, and lots of rice.
This tread interests me! I have celiac and luckily was diagnosed as an infant. Gluten free has been my way of life, but there have been times when I’ve eaten something with some gluten or tried something that I thought was gluten free and wasn’t. Terrible reaction which sets me back a couple of days… My diet is very simple: Rice, sweet potatoes, egg whites, and a lot of peanut butter. Quinoa and buckwheat are good too. I’m not much of a cook, my diet is very simple. I mostly stick to stuff that’s available in any store. I really don’t eat the gf bread or pasta because they’re a rip off and I have to go to specialty stores to buy - although I’m seeing more and more gf breads in supermarkets - we used to have to mail order gf foods. To me - there’s gluten free or not, there’s no “low-gluten”. My brother and I were raised gluten free so if anyone has any questions feel free to ask me…
Drawing from Rappstar’s IMC thread, there have been some interesting comments about the benefits of a non-gluten or low-gluten diet even for folks who are not intolerant of gluten. Thoughts?
My understanding is that diets that are low in gluten are less inflammatory and that gluten intolerance exists in exteme (celiac) and less extreme forms. It was interesting that in Rappstar’s thread he mentioned he also avoided most sources of lactose, which seems to exist along a similar pendulum of tolerance.
This is probably a stupid question, but what role does inflammation play on the micro-cellular and macro-body systems levels? I always talk about it; however, I think I am kind of talking out of my ass scientifically/medically.
Drawing from Rappstar’s IMC thread, there have been some interesting comments about the benefits of a non-gluten or low-gluten diet even for folks who are not intolerant of gluten. Thoughts?
My understanding is that diets that are low in gluten are less inflammatory and that gluten intolerance exists in exteme (celiac) and less extreme forms. It was interesting that in Rappstar’s thread he mentioned he also avoided most sources of lactose, which seems to exist along a similar pendulum of tolerance.
This is probably a stupid question, but what role does inflammation play on the micro-cellular and macro-body systems levels? I always talk about it; however, I think I am kind of talking out of my ass scientifically/medically.
micro vs macro? I don’t think I ever heard of that distinction before… But it makes sense to me…
On a micro level: The small intestine villi are compromised and can not absorb nutirents. Since lactase is produced at the tip of the villi - lactose intolerance is a common side effect.
On a macro level: Celiac disease is an auto immune disease and gluten causes an immune response. Too much of that isn’t good and celiacs have a much higher incidence of non-hodgkins lymphoma.
Is that the kind of distinction you were thinking of??
That’s perfect, thanks so much! The key to understanding what I write is context clues–the words can be disjointed or misused but usually understandable. Sadly, English is my first and only language 
Haven’t heard of the non-Hodgkins lymphoma correlation, I’ll research that a little bit when I get back to school. Just hope that 20 years eating gluten didn’t mess me up long term before the celiac diagnosis. Thanks again!
A couple of links to look at:
GF/Celiac/Anti-inflammatory diet notes here.
This one is on the First Endurance Website. Click here.
One thing to consider with all of the GF foods out there, is are you just replacing refined wheat with another refined carb? Some of the anti-inflammatory eating posts, websites, etc. are more focused on decreasing the general consumption of grains in general. They usually point to wheat as being one of the more inflammatory grains. And, a lot of the info out there is from a paleo point of view, so they are focused on reducing or eliminating grain consumption (and carbs in general). Just a couple of points that I’ve found. But, I’m also pretty ‘untrained’ in the area as well.
If someone is truly not sensitive to gluten, then becoming gluten-free should not matter. Of course, diversifying your diet is always good and adding different sources of grains is a great way to get a variety of nutrients. Gluten is harmless to people who are able to process it properly.
For those who are sensitive, ‘low-gluten’ is not an option. there is some debate about the threshold for contamination and how much it takes to cause a reaction, but the numbers 3, 20 and 100 parts per million are often discussed. Regardless of which number is considered correct, even a bread crumb has enough gluten to cause a response in someone that is sensitive. it also takes 90 days (or more) for the effects of gluten to leave your body, so I would argue that ‘low-gluten’ is not really helpful if you are trying to eliminate gluten for inflammatory reasons.
Like Jordan said, it’s pretty easy to experiment for yourself and see if it makes a difference. I went the doctor route because I was having health-related issues that led him to believe I have having absorption issues. I was diagnosed with a gluten intolerance and the genes for celiac disease about 3 years ago. This is the lab my doctor directed me to:https://www.enterolab.com/Home.htm. I did tests for gluten, dairy, yeast, as well as the gene panel. I was positive for sensitivities to wheat and dairy. My dairy issue is with casein, rather than lactose. If you’ve read The China Study, the book creates a strong link between animal protein (and specifically casein) and cancers. Regardless of that, my body can’t take it… My reaction to casein is more noticeable and immediate than my response to gluten.
Even after cutting out all that stuff, I still wasn’t feeling 100% 18 months later and got a further test done that was a blood panel testing about 96 different foods (different lab - not sure which). I had some other random sensitivities to cranberries, oysters, sesame, cane sugar and eggs. Eliminating those has gotten me back to normal. It was a lot of testing, but it was worth it. The long-term complications of ‘poisoning’ my system with these foods would have been disasterous. I already was dealing with severe osteopenia (pre-osteoporosis) when I was diagnosed with gluten issues. Changing my diet has corrected this and my bone density is back within normal after 3 years.
Celiac disease is an auto immune disease and gluten causes an immune response. Too much of that isn’t good and celiacs have a much higher incidence of non-hodgkins lymphoma.
Is that the kind of distinction you were thinking of??
There are strong correlations between celiac and other auto-immune diseases in general - not just non-hodgkins lymphoma. Diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, vitiligo and thyroid diseases also come to mind…
And, a lot of the info out there is from a paleo point of view, so they are focused on reducing or eliminating grain consumption (and carbs in general). Just a couple of points that I’ve found. But, I’m also pretty ‘untrained’ in the area as well.
Those are great links, added to my bookmarks already! Cutting out most grains (with the exception of the delicious Nature’s Path cereal in the morning) has been helpful in terms of performance, energy levels, etc… I was having major absorption issues, so avoiding deficiencies and keeping my weight up was made much easier using the gluten/lactose-free, and carb-reduced strategies.
Do you do long course racing? I imagine Paleo (for Athletes even) would be difficult with IM training loads. Thanks again for the response!
Well, I completed IMAz last year. I’ve done a slew of 70.3s this year, and will do IMMOO soon. I would argue that tending towards a more ‘paleo’ or ‘primal’ approach is relatively easier with Long Course training. The intensities are lower and do not tend to be glycogen depleting as quickly. So, I’m of the school of thought that you can get by with fewer carbs or at least better carbs and smarter timing of carbs. The first endurance site also has an article on “Low CHO Training” written by Neal Henderson that deserves a read. And, Bob Seebohar has several pieces on his site (escapes my mind right now) about ‘metabolic efficiency’. I have not looked at those though.
I prefer, and have blogged about, a “real food” approach that doesn’t really fit into any camp in particular. We eat real foods that includes quite a bit of meat, a lot of eggs, veggies, fruit, olive oil, avocado, almonds and almond butter, and coconut oil…those ingredients make up the majority of our meals. Similar to Rappstar, we probably eat a lot of fat. As high quality as possible, and have come very close to eliminating wheat products. We will eat oats a few times a week, which some claim affect those with gluten intolerance. We eat white and sweet potatoes as well as rice. We’ve been an experiment of 2, and were even part of a pretty hard core vegan pilot study for the “Engine2 diet” (not for ethical reasons) a couple of years ago. Obviously, you can see that we’ve very much gone the other way, and for us it works better. It’s like everything else, there are those who are very militant one way or the other and there’s seldom any middle ground. Find what works and stick with it…if it’s not working, make a change.
You might also want to check out www.robbwolf.com for a really good wheat free/gluten free blog and info source.
Edit: By ‘we’ I mean me and the missus -Tex.
Celiac disease is an auto immune disease and gluten causes an immune response. Too much of that isn’t good and celiacs have a much higher incidence of non-hodgkins lymphoma.
Is that the kind of distinction you were thinking of??
There are strong correlations between celiac and other auto-immune diseases in general - not just non-hodgkins lymphoma. Diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, vitiligo and thyroid diseases also come to mind…
Absolutely, I used that as an example because a lot of people tend to isolate this and other food intolerance to the GI system, even though they can effect the whole body…
That is great advice all around. Checked out your blog, and don’t want to sound too much like an electronic stalker, but good luck at IM Wisconsin!
And thanks for the resources, although my results/times have come back after rough spots after I was first diagnosed, your blog along with the other websites are awesome tools for any questions in the future.
If someone is truly not sensitive to gluten, then becoming gluten-free should not matter.
For those who are sensitive, ‘low-gluten’ is not an option.
I am sort of confused by those two statements, I guess you are saying if you are sensitive, low-gluten isn’t an option, basically meaning that no-gluten is the way you have to go?
But what about the first line? I am not sensitive to gluten in terms of being medically diagnosed, but could I still see some possible benefits from a reduction in gluten? That is what I am wondering. But you say becoming gluten-free to those folks should not matter, is that because they don’t need to go as strict as those with sensitivity but could still see some benefit from a reduction?
You also mention it taking 90 days for the effects of gluten to leave the body. I guess I am just wondering is the gluten-free an “all or none” deal or are there different shades of grey (for those w/o a diagnosed condition)? Again, I can eat bread, pasta, pizza, cereal, etc., just wondering if a reduction might help solve some of the digestive/stomach issues I have been having, which are relatively minor, but can be annoying/uncomfortable/frustrating, nonetheless.
So the question is really, for those of us without a gluten intolerance, might it be worthwhile form a performance standpoint to lower or eliminate our gluten intake?
I stick to real food. I’m a pretty decent home chef so I experiment and almost always cook or prepare my own foods for all but a couple meals each week. I do, however, consume a fair amount of wheat products and beer (barley). Really, I eat lots of everything. Proteins of all varieties, carbs, healthy fats, etc. Reading Rappstar’s comments got me to thinking about the above question?
I didn’t read this whole thread but I’ve been reading what rappster wrote about gluten.
I read similar stuff to that earlier this year and thought I was gluten intollerant at least. I changed my diet and thought I felt better. I had it in my mind that I felt worse when I ate gluten.
I then went to the dr and got a complete allergen food test. Turns out I didn’t have an intolerance to anything. Now i feel fine when I eat gluten :).
So before you go down the difficult glutten free lifestyle get your self tested.
If someone is truly not sensitive to gluten, then becoming gluten-free should not matter.
For those who are sensitive, ‘low-gluten’ is not an option.
I am sort of confused by those two statements, I guess you are saying if you are sensitive, low-gluten isn’t an option, basically meaning that no-gluten is the way you have to go?
But what about the first line? I am not sensitive to gluten in terms of being medically diagnosed, but could I still see some possible benefits from a reduction in gluten? That is what I am wondering. But you say becoming gluten-free to those folks should not matter, is that because they don’t need to go as strict as those with sensitivity but could still see some benefit from a reduction?
You also mention it taking 90 days for the effects of gluten to leave the body. I guess I am just wondering is the gluten-free an “all or none” deal or are there different shades of grey (for those w/o a diagnosed condition)? Again, I can eat bread, pasta, pizza, cereal, etc., just wondering if a reduction might help solve some of the digestive/stomach issues I have been having, which are relatively minor, but can be annoying/uncomfortable/frustrating, nonetheless.
If you are sensitive gluten, it’s all or nothing. ‘Cutting back’ on gluten will not do it. It’s not like lowering your cholesterol where you can just eat less butter or less bacon and see a change. For people who have a reaction, it’s an immune system response to a perceived toxin. Ingesting small amounts of the toxin still cause a reaction.
Therefore, if you are not sensitive to gluten, eliminating it will do not anything for you. If I eliminate apples from my diet, it will do nothing as well. Same thing.
Most things I’ve read or been told advise that you eliminate gluten completely for 90 days along with dairy. A lot of people who are sensitive to gluten are the same way with dairy.
Therefore, if you are not sensitive to gluten, eliminating it will do not anything for you. If I eliminate apples from my diet, it will do nothing as well. Same thing.
So then for someone without gluten sensitivity you are saying there is no point in cutting back? That seems to go against Jordan’s comments that started this thread originally. He specifically said he feels better when he consumes less gluten even though he has never been told he is sensitive to it.
I am not allergic to onions, but they upset my stomach and I feel better when I don’t eat them. But you’re saying gluten isn’t like this, if you aren’t sensitive to it, cutting back serves no benefit?
So the question is really, for those of us without a gluten intolerance, might it be worthwhile form a performance standpoint to lower or eliminate our gluten intake?
That’s exactly what I am wondering. I can’t see myself eliminating gluten, but would be curious of any potential benefits related to reducing, particularly at certain times (breakfast before a hard run, dinner the night before a race, etc.)
I agree - Rappstar seems to think he became leaner and “felt” better without it even though he can handle it.
BTW - I like onions and bacon, especially in pasta!
For the record, I do follow Austin79’s record. I.e., I don’t do “low” gluten, I do NO gluten. The distinction I was making in terms of tolerating it is that I do not have a severe allergic reaction if I do eat it. And I trained fine for a long time eating pasta, etc. But since switching to a NO gluten diet, I think there have been remarkable changes, the most notable being that I don’t have to #2 every time I run for over an hour.