Giant vs. Felt vs. QR vs. Cervelo

Triathlon Forum
1

Alright, my intensive bike research continues. So far, I have decided to go tri bike over converted road bike. In my price range I have the following choices:

Giant Trinity A2- $1500, Sora group, Composite Frame? (anyone that can tell me what this frame is made of would help alot)

Felt S32- $1450, Ultegra/105/Dura Ace mix, Aluminum

Quintana Roo Kilo- $1600, Ultegra/Dura Ace Mix, Aluminum

Cervelo P2 SL- $1650, Ultegra, though I might splurge another $200 to go to the Dura Ace, because I hate yellow.

I have a Emery’s Bicycles (owned by Bret Emery) near me that sells all these different brands along with Kestrel, Guru, and Trek, though those seemed out of my price range expect for the Equinox 5 which looked like a converted road bike.

My number one criteria is obviously fit. I will buy the bike that best fits me. Does anyone have an input past the fitting? Does one bike or another jump out and say, “if two of these fit you, buy this one cause…!”. I am really not concerned with the difference between $1450-$1800. All I want is a bike that I look at and I want to ride the hell out of it and that is reliable, and a good value.

Many thanks as always for the help,

~~Another Newb

2

I know that people will jump on me for being part of the Cervelo Mafia - but I am a long standing and card holding member. At least I am honest. However, that being said, if the Cervelo fits you, then in my opinion, FWIW, the Cervelo is the best deal for you.

3

Giant vs. Felt vs. QR vs. Cervelo vs. Armind Van Buuren: the greatest DJ battle ever to occur!

4

I’ll echo Fleck’s response.

Assuming fit, I’d highly recommend the Cervelo as well. Card carrying, bike riding member here (amongst other bikes) as well :0

I’ve had my issues, but Cervelo has always taken care of me. If you care at all about performance/engineering - there is no choice there. Fabrication, craft, beauty etc? Well, there are lots of other mfgs to choose from :wink:

5

I agree (obviously, based on my screen name) with Steve.

I wanted to stay in the same range as you (that eliminated Trek and Specialized) and narrowed it down to the Felt S22 and Cervelo P2SL. As long as the P2SL was a fit that was the bike I wanted. I would have been fine with the Ultegra version but the dealer only had a DA in my size.

If you’re looking for a differentiator then keep in mind that the P2SL DA bike has the anodized finish. You won’t need to worry about chipping and corrosion.

6

I see so many posts on here that attempt to compare one bike to another.

I do understand that thinking… or maybe I don’t. What I think is going on here is a comparison that is something like, “Bike A is $2000 and has a Dura-Ace front and rear derailleur, Visiontech, etc and Bike B has Ultegra front and rear derailleur, Profile, etc and is $2300. Which should I buy?”

Let me make these suggestions:

If you buy into the belief that the single largest factor influencing bicycle performance is bicycle fit and positioning then I propose you stop making these comparisons between bikes and adopt a different selection process: Use the Slowtwitch dealer locator to find a bike fitter. Contact the fitter and get some sense of your degree of trust in them There are alot of very good, experienced fitters out there and a lot of new fitters who have jumped on the bike fit bandwagon ver the last three years and really need some additional experience and education. Get a sense of which one you are dealing with. When you find a fitter you trust (because they have produced repeatable, favorable, tangible results for other consumers) then schedule a fitting. Consult with the fitter about which bikes are optimal for your body dimensions. This is usually the part of the thread where a person chimes in, “Yeah, but with the right stem, seatpost and few headset spacers you can make anything fit.” You know what? That is true. You *can *“make” anything fit. However, if your real goal is to find the **optimal **fit then forcing the fit by using a too-short stem, 4 cm of spacers and a zero setback post with a saddle tettering off the front of the rails is really less than optimal. Find the bike with the correct head tube height, the best top tube length and the optimal seat tube angle- or, more correctly, let your fitter find it for you. Then, follow your fitters recommendation.

Now, this may not have the curb appeal, emotional involvement of picking a bike but there’s the thing:

Six months after you have taken delivery on the bike and you are out on a ride you’ll have this experience where you realize, “Wow… this thing is like a part me. It feels like it isn’t even there…” That is the impression that will leave you with the most rewarding buying and ownership experience in the long term.

I see people do “research” when buying a bike, try to find answers to unanswerable questions and navigate a convoluted and conflicted set of opinions and just spin off into indecision. That is not a rewarding buying experience or shopping experience and rarely yeilds truly optimal results.

A big part of the reason people do this is cynicism about the parties selling tri bikes. There seems to be the prevalent attitude that a given LBS or bike fitter may have an association with a given brand that is largely founded in a mercinary motive. In other words, the guy is “pushing” one bike or brand over another. No question, those alliance exist. The bottom line is, can you/do you trust the fitter to deliver on the promise of optimizing your fit and thusly, your ownership experience?

One of the smartest things Dan Empfield (founder of this website and forum, arguably inventor of the triathlon bike) ever said was something t the effect of (paraphrasing) “Shop for a bike shop rather than a bike” I buy that 100%. To it I will add, “The single most important determining factor in your ownership experience is fit and positioning.”

Compare shops and dimensions, not bikes.

7

What you should really do is find a FIST bike fitter that can get your reach and stack on a fit bike. Then use that information to determine which bike fits you best. The FIST bike fitter should have all the companies reach and stacks, and could point you toward the variety of bikes that best fits you and is in your price range. You can use the Slowtwitch website to find a FIST bike fitter in your area. This will cost you some money, but would get you the bike that would work for your body type best.

FIST Certified Bike Fitter

8

Tom,

Well said and should be required reading for anyone looking at a new bike.

I would have said all that myself, but still would have put in the Cervelo plug - blood is thicker than water! :slight_smile:

9

You should know by now that is Tom’s cut & paste reply (as excellent as it is). I’m certain I’ve seen it verbatim and could almost recite it!

Fess Tom - you have that saved somewhere, right? You just copy in with each new bike thread?

10

Giant Trinity A2- $1500, Sora group, Composite Frame? (anyone that can tell me what this frame is made of would help alot)

The Giant is a half-carbon, half-aluminum frame. The top tube, seat tube and seat stays are carbon, and the chain stays, down tube and head tube are aluminum. I ride the A2 in size S with upgraded derailleurs (Ultegra), and it’s really great. Steep geometry, all the benefits of carbon (comfy ride, deep seat tube cutout, decently lightweight) without most of the cost. I would recommend it, if it fits you (as Tom said). Consider upgrading the derailleurs, as you won’t want the Sora on your race bike :slight_smile:

I can tell you right now that, IN MY OPINION, the Giant is a better looking bike than most other bikes at the $1500 price point, perhaps due to the half-carbon frame and paint job (which I happen to like). Also, its geometry is right there with Cervelo/QR/Felt–78 degree STA etc, but just a tiny bit different that one of these bikes will definitely be the right fit for you. (I believe that the Giant has a slightly taller headtube, and a slightly longer reach than the Cervelo??)

11

I just do a search on “any bike vs. any other bike” on the forum and pull it off there.

I need another cut and paste for, “Is a half Ironman one month before Ironman too much?”

Those have to be the two most frequently asked (good) questions on the forum.

12

I agree 100% with that acessment on how to buy a bike, hence me saying that fit is my first priority. I asked if two bikes fit me prefectly, what other determining factors would there be? PS2Lowry posted that the cervelo has an anodized finish that would keep away chips and corrosion. That would be a determining factor if two bikes fit me perfectly.

I am not buying one bike over the other because of the way it looks, the components, none of that. I am buying the bike that fits me like a glove. However, if there are two gloves, what seperates one over the other? I fully understand that people buy bikes according to names like Dura Ace or Carbon Fiber. And that’s fine. I’m not doing that. I am buying the bike that fits me firstly, THEN determining what other components or features the bike might have to make one stand out over another. If you have any determining factors, please share them. I might go in and the only thing that fits Me is Bike A. Great. Bike A goes home with me. But if Bike A, B, C fit me, then why buy bike A over C? I am sure the shop will have reasons as well. Perhaps a persons geometery makes it so only one bike out of 10 truly fits them. I really have no idea. This is my first tri bike. Will 5 fit me? Will 3? What is the typical?

I have called my shop, but I did not ask if they were FIST certified. They compeltely understood my desire for a bike and said; “Come in, we’ll measure you, we’ll adjust the bikes to you, we’ll show you ones that fit, then you ride them. It could take all day.” Sounds like exactly what I expect from a good shop.

Can someone tell me where I can find the list of FIST certified dealers for Wisconsin? Thanks, and once again, thanks for everyone’s help.

13

Hey Tom…

I’ve also seen your reply a couple of times and agree that it is extremely useful and should be required reading when bike shopping.

However, the OP stated that he’s already found a bike shop and understands that fit is the deciding factor. All the bikes he listed have “American” (ie. >76*) geometry and similar components so I would assume that he is looking for tie-breakers (or deal breakers, as the case may be).

IMO, All of the bikes listed will definitely get the job done but, assuming they all can be made to fit, my $.02 says go for the Felt. Well thought out design, exceptional value, and superior customer service. Of course, the same can be said for Cervelo as well.

That being said… I am doing a half marathon 2 weeks before a half ironman - is this a good idea? :wink:

14

Each of those frmaes follows fairly similar principles geometrically and in most sizes you would fit any of them equally well (small variations in stem length and spacer height).
AS some gross generalisations:
the giant tends to be taller (more stack) so could be the best choice if you need your bars high.
The Felt has a steeper steering setup so tends to have comparatively more weight on the front wheel for a given position
QR and p2 generally pretty close

The felt is the only one to not have an aero post - can be an advantage but detracts from the feeling of speed you get by looking at a tt bike. Cervelo definitely has horiz dropouts, not sure on the others, for most people I think they’re a disadvantage but are espoused by some as critical on a tt bike. Cervelo is certainly the narrowest of the 4 and is a solid, well proven frame.

What I look at on stock bikes is how much has to be upgraded to get them right. Stock spec is chosen to squeeze into a target pricepoint and shortcuts are taken.
Giant - has low grade parts and wheels - need to spend a couple of hundred to be full 105 with solid wheels
QR - change levers to tektro rx4.1, upgrade wheels. maybe cranks
Felt - aerobars might suit but angles aren’t that great so be prepared to change, consider changing cranks, calipers and wheels
Cervelo - this would be my favourite of the options but I’m a nightmare for stores that I send clients to. I’d ask very nicely for them to do a frameswap so you could have ultegra on the anodised black frame. Then I would want the levers changed to tektro rx4.1 (or other return sprung compact shape lever). I’d change the cranks and calipers to ultegra (or 105 but fully matching is nice) and I’d get 32spoke training wheels with training tyres rather than the paperweight vittorias. Then I would have a bike that could give years of trouble free service and be fast to boot.

You’ll notice a recurring dislike of FSA cranks and tektro calipers. They aren’t actually that bad, the cranks don’t shift as well and will fall off if not very carefully installed, but they will do the job. The calipers brake quite well if you change the pads but they tend to rust. Low end shimano and alex wheels just aren’t worth the hassle if you are doing serious miles but can be fine for light use. Diacompe levers are big, ugly and don’t have return springs and the tektros feel nicer. So these aren’t necessarily essential changes but I like to get bikes “just so” and ensure that there are no let down components.

My wifes TT bike is a P2Sl with full campag veloce, vision cockpit and handbuilt training wheels. Super solid and never gives a moments grief (unless I forget to lube the nokon cables). Spending a little extra at the beginning can make a difference for long term use.

And as a final note - be prepared to spend extra on getting a saddle that works for you.

15

with the parts they come with and at those prices, i would go with the cervelo or the QR.have been on both and loved both.
i liked the Giant a lot but with sora on it.

16

My thoughts:
upgrade and get the p2c by cervelo=cause it will have a MUCH beter resale value than the other bikes, plus, you can get one for only $500 more if you are okay with spending the $2000 (by that I mean the p2c is $2500). Or go with a kuota K-factor base model or the SL K-Factor. look into them. They are great bikes (all carbon) and are similar in price. obviously, this should all be done in consideration after you are fitted…

17

Newbie,
If the fit b/t the Cervelo and the Felt are comparable I would go with the S32. I have 2005 model of the s32 and love the bike, it fits me great, and have upgraded many of the components over the years. For the price and quality of the bike (frame and components) I dont think you can go wrong…if it fits. Plus you can upgrade some of drive train and still come with in the price of the P2. Mine was a straight 105 build and have since upgraded to Ultegra 10 spd. Hope this helps.

18

well, the i-net is full of opinions, so here’s another: get the Cervelo. Among the bikes at which you’re looking, it’s pretty clearly the most aerodynamic.

As far as fit, my thoughts are that as long as the bike is roughly the correct size, you can achieve the same fit on pretty much any modern time trial bicycle. I continually am befuddled by those who would try to make you believe that 1 degree of ST angle or 5 millimeters of head tube length are such a big deal–they aren’t. That’s why they make stems in different lengths and angles, and why elbow pads are adjustable. Furthermore, the ‘correct’ fit typically evolves over time anyway. Do people really think you’re going to immediately find the most powerful and aerodynamic position from a ‘fit’ in a bike shop or fitter, and be set? That’s not it works…

19

Putting another $800-$1000 to upgrade to the P2C is NOT an option. I can guarantee that dropping an extra $1000 for “better resale value” is not a keen financial decision for a NEWBIE!!! Hell, it isn’t even that sound a decision to buy a $1500 bike for a newbie. I am new to this and even I know that I don’t need a $2500 bike.

20

You hit on the only consideration I, as a fellow newb, can offer. I believe the Cervelo probably has a better resale value of the bikes listed. If you’ve got a few minutes to spend, check out what these models are going for on e-bay. If you decide to upgrade in a year or two, it could be a factor, all else being equal.
I bought my Tequilo (with which I have been very happy) late last summer as left over stock from a retailer. I got it for a song, partly because everyone shopping there wants a Cervelo or Kuota. If there’s no way you might sell the bike, disregard everything I have said.