they have your respect because the great darwin reached into their genes and placed a huge aerobic engine in them, and then they cheated?
that is a bizarre way to dole out respect.
monsters, and they have my respect regardless of all the doping stuff.
She always seemed like a poor sport. Just sayin’
I met her at the worlds in Hamilton way back (2003?) when she was busy warming up for her TT. She was really nice, posed for photos with my friends and I, all just several minutes before starting her TT. I’ve always been a big fan. I know they need to clean the sport up, but I still think all these guys and gals at the top of the sport are absolute physical monsters, and they have my respect regardless of all the doping stuff.
So if the reason they are absolute monsters is because they are all doped up, you give them respect for that? Baffling.
I don’t believe that at all. Do I think that PED’s make a difference? Yes. But even without PED’s, these people are still amazing athletes. Just my .02.
She always seemed like a poor sport. Just sayin’
I met her at the worlds in Hamilton way back (2003?) when she was busy warming up for her TT. She was really nice, posed for photos with my friends and I, all just several minutes before starting her TT. I’ve always been a big fan. I know they need to clean the sport up, but I still think all these guys and gals at the top of the sport are absolute physical monsters, and they have my respect regardless of all the doping stuff.
So if the reason they are absolute monsters is because they are all doped up, you give them respect for that? Baffling.
I don’t believe that at all. Do I think that PED’s make a difference? Yes. But even without PED’s, these people are still amazing athletes. Just my .02.
Just not sure how you can make that distinction though. But like you said, it’s your opinion.
and amazing cheaters and liars!
I don’t believe that at all. Do I think that PED’s make a difference? Yes. But even without PED’s, these people are still amazing athletes. Just my .02.
This is very sad if true… but doesnt completely surprise me… i guess nothing does in sports these days…
If you’re getting your epo from China, it’s contaminated with who knows what, so the net benefit is a draw.
"Blown away… "
x2. Slowtwitch never ceases to amaze me.
If you’re getting your epo from China, it’s contaminated with who knows what, so the net benefit is a draw.
Not sure why you’d draw the line at EPO from China. Take a walk down the aisle of your local grocery store and see how much of the food you are eating comes from China. I’d be more worried about that.
Also it baffles me how everyone get’s on their high horse whenever someone gets busted for doping, allegedly or otherwise. I’m of the opinion of ‘till I’ve walked a mile in their shoes’.
Everyone here will swear up and down that they would never dope. But when the pressure is on and the need to please sponsors and teams and earn a living for your family and the attitude that ‘everyone is doing it’ so the only way to remain competitive is to join in. How may would turn it down?
We sit here in the comfort of our moral superiority and vilify them without ever really understanding them.
They took their chances and their punishment is deserved, but I can show empathy for them for making the choice they did. For choosing to cheat in a system that they must have felt was patently unfair and full of cheaters.
well if shes dirty im glad shes getting caught.
a lot of young women in france can be a lot more proud of their achievements now.
I hate to burst your buble but none of the pro’s are clean. She’s not getting caught, she probably pissed off the wrong people and they decided to do away with her.
I hate to burst your buble but none of the pro’s are clean… .
Completely agree, but I think a lot of people here assume that all their favorite pro triathletes are clean (cause they never tested positive…).
So if the reason they are absolute monsters is because they are all doped up, you give them respect for that? Baffling.
What I think you miss, is that these guys/gals are better then 98.5% of the entire planet at what they do when they are clean. What they are trying to do is be better then 99.5% of the entire planet so they can make decent money.
Go talk to a bunch of cyclists who went from unheard of domestics to heard of domestics and/or classic contenders or stage race contenders. Ask them how many times their salary increased. A guy who is always signing 1 year deals is always 1 year away from being unemployed. He isn’t making the kind of $ someone who is signing a 3 year deal is making.
A guy who is a mid level rider on a United healthcare team isn’t making nearly as much as a guy who is a mid level rider on FDJ. Nor is a top level rider on UHC making as much as a bottom rung guy on a pro tour team.
Go ask Mancebo how much he was making racing for AG2R and how much he makes racing for Reacyclist.com.
I hate to burst your bubble but none of the pro’s are clean
I hate to burst your bubble but none is a very all encompassing word. That would imply no pro is clean when actually several are. You would have been correct to say that some of the pro’s are clean just like you would have been correct to say that some of the pro’s (even in triathlon) are dirty.
So if the reason they are absolute monsters is because they are all doped up, you give them respect for that? Baffling.
What I think you miss, is that these guys/gals are better then 98.5% of the entire planet at what they do when they are clean. What they are trying to do is be better then 99.5% of the entire planet so they can make decent money.
Go talk to a bunch of cyclists who went from unheard of domestics to heard of domestics and/or classic contenders or stage race contenders. Ask them how many times their salary increased. A guy who is always signing 1 year deals is always 1 year away from being unemployed. He isn’t making the kind of $ someone who is signing a 3 year deal is making.
A guy who is a mid level rider on a United healthcare team isn’t making nearly as much as a guy who is a mid level rider on FDJ. Nor is a top level rider on UHC making as much as a bottom rung guy on a pro tour team.
Go ask Mancebo how much he was making racing for AG2R and how much he makes racing for Reacyclist.com.
I don’t think I am missing that point. My point to you is how do we know they are better than 98.5% of the people on the planet. How long have they been doping?
If it were all about money, I would recommend to them they find a different line of work. Do nurses/social workers do their job because of the money? Not likely. Every time money is brought up in these discussions it’s almost like trying to validate why they do what they do. If they aren’t good enough to make decent money then it is time to move on and do something else where they can make good/decent money. It’s an excuse and I am personally tired of hearing it. They are cheaters and liars and I for one won’t support them.
Endurance sports happen to be very selective, you are either fast enough to make it or you are not. And you are correct, I should have said faster then 98.5% of the people who choose to participate in endurance sports
They are monsters before they doped they just became bigger monsters after they doped.
I’m not asking you to support them. I’m asking you to look at both sides of the situation and see both sides of the argument.
Often times i feel ST is like politicians, only willing to look at their side of the equation and disregards the other side right out of the gate.
fwiw, I also oppose doping, but realize why it’s going to happen, especially since I’ve had in depth conversations with pro cyclists and triathletes who have doped.
So if the reason they are absolute monsters is because they are all doped up, you give them respect for that? Baffling.
What I think you miss, is that these guys/gals are better then 98.5% of the entire planet at what they do when they are clean. What they are trying to do is be better then 99.5% of the entire planet so they can make decent money.
Go talk to a bunch of cyclists who went from unheard of domestics to heard of domestics and/or classic contenders or stage race contenders. Ask them how many times their salary increased. A guy who is always signing 1 year deals is always 1 year away from being unemployed. He isn’t making the kind of $ someone who is signing a 3 year deal is making.
A guy who is a mid level rider on a United healthcare team isn’t making nearly as much as a guy who is a mid level rider on FDJ. Nor is a top level rider on UHC making as much as a bottom rung guy on a pro tour team.
Go ask Mancebo how much he was making racing for AG2R and how much he makes racing for Reacyclist.com.
I don’t think I am missing that point. My point to you is how do we know they are better than 98.5% of the people on the planet. How long have they been doping?
If it were all about money, I would recommend to them they find a different line of work. Do nurses/social workers do their job because of the money? Not likely. Every time money is brought up in these discussions it’s almost like trying to validate why they do what they do. If they aren’t good enough to make decent money then it is time to move on and do something else where they can make good/decent money. It’s an excuse and I am personally tired of hearing it. They are cheaters and liars and I for one won’t support them.
Two problems here:
How many pros do you know who would just voluntarily give up the sport/dream?
Most cyclists in Europe have a high school education (at best). They are not in a position to make anywhere near the $$$ they made as a pro and either open a small bike shop in their hometown or get a job at the local factory like everyone else.
That reminds me of discussions about Erwan Mentheour who happened to be one of those who wrote a book on doping
after opening their mouth, and retiring from pro cycling. He admitted to doping. But everyone from Brittany remembers the
kid who started in cycling, and would absolutely kill everyone at races. And we’re not even talking about a top pro (although
with more brains, and support, he could have been I think).
Stories about Luc Van Lierde (never tested positive but many have doubts) who just entered 10km runs when he was a swimmer,
and ended running low 33min on no run training at all…
Stories like that are endless. These guys are much better than the immense majority of us. Doping or not.
who just entered 10km runs when he was a swimmer,
and ended running low 33min on no run training at all…
I wish I had that problem when I was a swimmer.
All the training in the world isn’t going to make up for a serious lack of genetics that are not predisposed to endurance sports. You may close the gap, but if you’ve only got 45% ST fibers becoming a WC runner isn’t going to happen.
Endurance sports happen to be very selective, you are either fast enough to make it or you are not. And you are correct, I should have said faster then 98.5% of the people who choose to participate in endurance sports
They are monsters before they doped they just became bigger monsters after they doped.
I’m not asking you to support them. I’m asking you to look at both sides of the situation and see both sides of the argument.
Often times i feel ST is like politicians, only willing to look at their side of the equation and disregards the other side right out of the gate.
fwiw, I also oppose doping, but realize why it’s going to happen, especially since I’ve had in depth conversations with pro cyclists and triathletes who have doped.
Sorry Brian, I still think you are empathizing with a group who deserves no empathy. It’s like saying, I can understand why Bernie Madoff stole all that money from those folks. He was rich but he wanted to be one of the richest men in the world and couldn’t do it unless he cheated people out of their money.
They are making choices. The choice is to cheat and maybe become a great doped cyclist and make some more money, or quit and do something else (there are millions of people all over the world doing low paying jobs and are quite happy with their life), or you can be happy with how far you have made it and do a job on that team. Not everyone can be a General.
The realization of why doping happens is greed. The choice is theirs, 100%. No excuses and no empathy from this side of the fence.
Actually several studies suggest that the main cause of doping is greed per se, but ego. Even at the pro level.
Actually several studies suggest that the main cause of doping is greed per se, but ego. Even at the pro level.
I was going to put that as well so thanks for the addition.