I didn’t see this posted elsewhere even though it has been out for a couple weeks. I think I need to get the camera out to look at my running form!
great video, Rinny looks really good on the run
i agree re: video of yourself, would be interesting to see ourselves run.
Except that Carfrae isn’t actually moving up and down that much. Watch her hips, and you’ll see that they go in a straight line, give or take an inch or so.
Interesting. And I’ve been thinking more about vertical displacement when running and watching others run lately, so it’s always cool to see your own uneducated and plebian-as-hell opinion confirmed!
I had a brief video of me running done a whiole back. What a disappointing experience. I did not look anything like I felt I did, although I certainly prefer to be called a “Glider” to a “lumbering old fool”.
What a great analysis.
I had an excellent experience with Todd in an online bike fit as well.
Nice… I like their TT analysis too. Thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sssd4D9MM5k
I prefer the analysis of Crowie and Lieto…
I was thinking of the different styles during my long run yesterday. I tried to run in a more gazelle fashion for 2 miles then glider fashion for 2 to see how I felt. Of course, without seeing my form, it’s difficult to determine if I was doing anything really different. For gazelle, I was a bit faster with a lower cadence (~88) but it seemed to take more effort from the legs. When gliding, my cadence was higher (~92), I was a little slower but it seemed to take less force/effort from my legs. So, not much definitive from the early testing (i.e. faster pace should feel harder). I need to improve my lean for the gazelle and increase my cadence (and have less heel lift) for gliding.
I have been thinking of 2 different “take home messages” from this. First, as many AGers seem to be shuffling for a good bit of the run, knowing how to be a good glider may be useful even if your normal/fresh running form is closer to that of a gazelle. Second, if you can learn how to do both forms reasonably well, then perhaps switching between forms may help to maintain form when experiencing muscle fatigue during the IM. That is, if the 2 methods use slightly different muscle groups (or, rather, stress different muscle fibers) then switching from one to the other may provide a bit of relief while maintaining pace (similar to spinning vs mashing on the bike while maintaining a given power).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sssd4D9MM5k
I prefer the analysis of Crowie and Lieto…
Thanks for posting that. A couple parts that I liked about the 1st video that I don’t see in the above video is that the first 1) showed dramatically different styles, 2) used many different runners as examples and 3) acknowledged that no one style is “the best”. The above video analyzed differences between 2 runners and speculated as to the reasons (i.e. Lieto’s form required more quad & hip flexor force which are fatigued from the bike whereas Crowie’s form uses more hamstring force which are not as fatigued from the bike compared to quads/hip flexors). What I find confusing or not addressed from that analysis is whether Lieto’s form the result of weaker hamstrings or more fatigued quads/hip flexors (keeping in mind how hard Lieto bikes). If Lieto’s and Crowies run form looks the same in that video as when they are relatively fresh (e.g. at the start of a half iron run), then this would be a stronger argument. Comparing a fatigued Leito to a fresh Leito (start of the run vs 20K later) could also be enlightening–does the form change because he is fatigued or does the form stay the same but the pace slows due to fatigue.
Also, the differences in their forms seems more subtle than when comparing Chrissie & Rinny. Seeing how low Chrissie’s & Cat Snow’s leading feet were to the ground when the training feet were at toe off was quite surprising to me.
I wonder how much ‘gliding’ is induced by the bike leg. It would be interesting to see a comparison of triathletes, elite and non, in a pre/ post run. Film them doing some speed work on a run that was on rested legs. Then compare to the run leg in a race. I’d be curious how much run form changes due to fatigue as your body searches for the most efficient technique.
I think form differences between mirinda and chrissie is just a result of being vastly different heights, while running the same pace.
a tall person who replicated mirinda’s form would have to also run faster than her.
a short person who replicated chrissies form would have to run slower.
dicsuss!
I think form differences between mirinda and chrissie is just a result of being vastly different heights, while running the same pace.
a tall person who replicated mirinda’s form would have to also run faster than her.
a short person who replicated chrissies form would have to run slower.
dicsuss!
The video touches on this briefly but states that there are exceptions to the tall vs short generalizations. I think he stated a tall runner would generally go with gazelle (think tall distance runners) while short goes with gliding; thus Rinny & Chrissie are the opposite of those generalizations. I would think that it would be more of a function of leg strength/fitness rather than limb length/height. I don’t think I would have sufficient strength & fitness for the gazelle form after a hard bike ride. Whether that’s a result of going too hard on the bike or not having adequate run fitness is another topic all together.
right, after a hard ride, you can’t run as fast. so your stride is shorter. so you look more like a glider.
don’t pay any attention to me though I’m really bad at running.
I watched it and thought it was pretty interesting. One of the big takeways that I thought was that at the end he ‘kind’ of mentioned a pace threshold for the two, and it seemed like it was 6 minutes per mile. But also he mentioned (I think) if you were running 7 minutes per mile or slower, that maybe the glider method was ‘better’ (my ‘’).
The vertical movement that he talked about I took to mainly mean air time, which will be greater in a gazelle type runner.
I had a conversation with an athlete. This could open a can of worms, but he talked of trying to change his footstrike, and he was injured. But, I do think that focusing on the turnover aspect of running can ‘fix’ a lot of issues that people have. My observation has been that a LOT of triathletes are stuck around 78-80 foot strikes per minute. Focusing on increasing that to 85+ might be tough, but I think that it can ‘fix’ a lot of issues, and I ‘think’ that it is more sustainable, especially in an IM.
I just suck.
I had a conversation with an athlete. This could open a can of worms, but he talked of trying to change his footstrike, and he was injured. But, I do think that focusing on the turnover aspect of running can ‘fix’ a lot of issues that people have.** My observation has been that a LOT of triathletes are stuck around 78-80 foot strikes per minute. Focusing on increasing that to 85+ might be tough, but I think that it can ‘fix’ a lot of issues**, and I ‘think’ that it is more sustainable, especially in an IM.
In my n=1 experience, I could not agree more. I had a very heavy heal-first strike and was in the high 70’s/low 80’s cadence range. I had a gait analysis done trying to determine the cause of extensive fatigue in my hamstrings (if felt as if I’d gone through two-a-days all the time - even when not running).
It was determined that my hip flexors weren’t able to stabilize the jarring I was giving them by my slow, over-striding form. I didn’t set out to become a mid-foot striker, but instead concentrated on the higher turnover and landing under my center of gravity.
I switched to a higher cadence and by the end of six weeks, my Asics Gel Cumulus didn’t feel so great and I’d switched to a more neutral shoe with more drop. I certainly needed the cushioned heel before, but now it’s not needed. My fatigue has subsided and I’ve been able to stay injury free.
In my opinion, the key to this was the higher cadence.
twomarks
I watched it and thought it was pretty interesting. One of the big take-aways that I thought was that at the end he ‘kind’ of mentioned a pace threshold for the two, and it seemed like it was 6 minutes per mile. But also he mentioned (I think) if you were running 7 minutes per mile or slower, that maybe the glider method was ‘better’ (my ‘’).
He also mentioned that all the top pure runners are “gazelles” as this style is needed to do sub-5:00 miles. In summary, the “gazelles” are the real runners. No offense to Wellington fans:)
According to the literature, self selected running stride length and cadence is the most economical way to run. I’m not entirely sure what the purpose of this video was.
According to the literature, self selected running stride length and cadence is the most economical way to run. I’m not entirely sure what the purpose of this video was.
I am not sure what is meant by “the literature” but if it means that there is a near unanimous agreement, I would doubt the validity. Getting general agreement on almost anything is quite a rarity. As for “self selected running stride length”, I wonder what that is really supposed to mean also. Is that for untrained runners or does that refer to experienced runners (which could just reflect the instruction they received)? Sorry, but there are too many generalizations in that first statement to hold much weight. I recently read Sheila Tiaormina’s book where she takes an excerpt from Johnny Weismuller’s book about swimming. He described his head up (hence the Tarzan form) as the most efficient. As he was an Olympic gold medalist, who would argue? Any time we think we have found the “best” way to do anything, we should realize that we are likely fooling ourselves.