I am doing GCGF for the first time a week from Saturday and interested in any tips from veterans on pacing, gearing, nutrition, equipment, hardest parts of the ride, etc. I am building toward IMMT and planning on doing the 125 mile/16000 foot climbing ride. I have done a few IMs and but never a ride over 100 miles with this much climbing so it should be an interesting day.
I am the mind behind the GCGF, so I’ll give you the straight scoop. No marketing, no b.s.
The Diabolical Double is a legitimate beast of a ride. The whole point of the DD, which is the whole reason the GCGF exists, is to create as epic a double metric century as can be made in an area that is conducive to really challenging rides. Have you raced SavageMan?
I recommend to folks to do the DD as an end-goal in and of itself, not as training for an IM. Now, that doesn’t mean that I followed my own advice, as the DD was created via annual IMLP training rides out at Deep Creek that evolved into SavageMan and the GCGF. The DD is an amazing accomplishment, and if the goal is IM training, I would suggest sticking to the Savage Century at 102 miles and 12,700’.
With that said, advice: Don’t get caught up in the timed climbs in the first 50 miles. There are five timed climbs, but four of them in the first 50, and you will want those bullets back on the back half. I’m scared to have the timed climbs due to the carnage they will produce, but folks want them and logistically it makes sense to hit all the shorter, steeper climbs in the first half that all the rides (except the 25) hit.
The first half and second half of the rides are very different even though elevation climbed is near identical, and I, personally, find the first half much more challenging. But others say the longer climbs in the second half is what do them in. The first half is all about what are effectively Killer Miller repeats, if you know the SavageMan course. White Rock Rd, Everly, Pig’s Ear, Collier, Old Morgantown, Devil’s Half Acre, Killer Miller. It’s not cool, they just keep coming again and again with grades well into the teens. The second half of the ride has some steep stuff, like the gravel Blue Lick Rd and the summit finish at Wisp, but the climbing tends to be longer and at just a bit more tolerable grade. The climbs in WV by Jennings Randolph Lake, North Hill, the backside of Big Savage - all long, single digit grades. I find that at mile 50 I think there is no way I’m doing 125, but at mile 100 have settled into a groove while the others are breaking down.
Think long and hard at mile 60 when the 102 and 125 diverge whether you are up for another 65 miles of it, because it that’s what you’re in for. The 102 ride is a monster in it’s own right, and if you have big training plans in the two weeks following the GCGF you may appreciate shaving 23 miles and 4000’ off your day. Shortly after the divergence, the 102 gets the pleasure of 10 flat miles along Savage River, pretty much the only flat, long stretch of road in the county. It’s really nice and there’s no shame in it.
It’s stunning riding. All the rides are simply stunning. I’ve ridden the entire TdF one year, la Marmotte, l’eTape du Tour 2007, and the DD is every bit as challenging even if no single climb can compare to the high peaks. Set the DD as an A goal one year, but I wouldn’t sacrifice another A goal by using it as a “training ride”.
I haven’t done the GCGF or Savageman, but both are on my bucket list, and I did a 70 mile ride out of Deep Creek that incorporating much of the Gran Fondo/the Savageman course, and I can tell you Kyle’s warnings above are totally accurate. It’s really harder riding than anything I’ve ever done–it’s absolutely unbelievable and will make you a man. My ride nearly knocked me out cold, but I was riding very hard and taking the climbs near threshold. My advice would be, take it extremely easy on the climbs…stay well below your threshold. Key equipment? Good gearing on your bike so you can take it easy on the climbs. A power meter…watch your power on climbs and keep your normalized watts at something you think you can reasonably sustain for x hours. Don’t think of it in mileage terms. It isn’t 125 miles…it’s however many hours it will take you and the normalized power that you push for that time frame (to give you a perspective on how challenging the terrain is, my 70 mile loop took me 4 hours, so ~averaging 17.2 mph, despite normalized watts at 3.5 per kg). If you don’t have a power meter, keep heart rate under control on the climbs. Did I mention to take it easy on the climbs haha
Good luck and definitely report back. It’s gorgeous out there, so enjoy
Thanks alot for the advice, I really appreciate it. I did the savageman olympic last year and it was the best olmypic bike course I have ever ridden and that is what made me want to come back to try the GCGF (would do the HIM this year too but its just too close to IMMT). Wasn’t really considering doing less than the 125 but I have done IMLP twice and found it a solid challenge and it sounds like the climbing here is going to make that look like a spin along the beach. I guess I will make the call at the 60 mile mark with your sage counsel in mind. Thanks again.
I love the 30.0 bike course. It’s hilly enough to earn the SavageMan name, but not over the top like everything else out there. The biggest climb on that course is Bumblebee, and it wouldn’t register on the DD. Have fun. You know what you’re doing, so just enjoy it and be smart.
My fiance and i have done the DD since its inception, sadly we will be missing it this year as we are both in school right now (what up kyw!). First off congrats, this is an epic ride, and even taking on the challenge is commendable. Also listen to what Kyle says, pace yourself the first 50, the climbs in the first half are steep, enjoy the scenery as it is some of the best ridding i have ever experienced and if you take the time to look around you won’t pay later by pushing too much early. Eat early, PBJ is your friend, it will be a long day, and if you plan on doing the 102 or the 125 you will need the calories. The climb up to WV and out of randolph lake will not seem so majestic if you have tunnel vision because you pushed to hard and did not eat enough the first 50. Make sure to make some friends out there as they will help you get up pigs ear and killer miller etc. Most important, be careful on the descents, there are some very long descents on this ride, you can build speed up to 45+ mph, just be careful, pay attention to the signage and dont overcook the downhills. We r a bit weird but we have used this ride as training in the past, it can be done and it is awesome way to kick it midseason, just use your brain. This event as well as savageman are honestly the two best events we have ever had the honor of participating in. It is a top notch crew, the organization and cause are great, and the people that run it are what makes the day. I heart KYW
i registered for this as a “training ride” for IM LP in 2011. i had no clue what i was getting into. it is an amazing ride. I would do it again in a heart beat. i don’t know, however, if i would do it for an IM training ride again. certainly not for a race as close as IM LP. with IM MT, you have a little more time to recover. this beat me up way more than any ride has ever done. it will impact your bike and run training for a week or two afterward. if this is not what you are looking for, one of the shorter options might be a better choice.
for comparison sake, the DD took me just under 9 hrs of ride time. The last IM bike I’ve done was 5:49. That’s a hell of a time difference…again, from just a straight time comparison, a shorter option would be better IM training, I think.
With that being said, having completed DD is one of my proudest athletic achievements.
If you do decide to try the full ride, the best advice I got was to ride VERY conservatively in the first half. You’re going to need every last ounce of reserves for that 2nd half.
race report: http://hooslisa.com/category/diabolical-double/
I rode the DD and Savageman 70.0 last year, and I’m getting ready to ride the DD again in 10 days. Lots of good advice in here already, from folks who know what they’re talking about. From my own limited experience:
– DD is hard. The Savageman bike course seemed like a breeze by comparison.
– Heed the warnings about being conservative early on. I thought that once I was past Killer Miller (~mile 55) I was done with the nasty steep climbing, and the rest was just a steady slog. I was wrong.
– For me, the first “half” of the ride is the portion up to the Westernport rest stop (~mile 83). I started to suffer much more after that point.
– I underestimated the later climbs. I think I found the climb out of Jennings-Randolph lake in WV the hardest (~mile 95). The grade was never insane, but it was quite relentless.
– The gravel road climb around mile 70 (Dry Lick Rd.?) is an unexpectedly difficult little bugger; the soft surface made it much harder to do a standing climb
– The last section, after Rest stop #6, was a real pleasure and relief
– My hands got very tired from braking on the descents.
– For me the most hair-raising part was the first segment, which is largely downhill. Morning mist created visibility problems, especially for somebody with glasses. I struggled to see where I was going. Certainly helped me to slow down.
– Expect a long day out there. I think of myself as a fairly good climber, and I was getting some good Strava placings on some of the climbs (dumb!), but I was out there for 10+ hours.
Beautiful course. Fantastic experience. You’re competing against the course, not against the other riders. See you out there next week.
Everything Kyle says is true. Except for the first vs. second half. Folks who come ride the DD who have raced Savageman or just done training rides have done most of the hills in the first half of the ride, but Westernport is the rubicon – the WV climbs start right away, the people doing the 70 and 100 aren’t around and it’s just you and folks heading to the random man-made lake out in the hills. Beautiful ride, but that part gets lonely quick.
I agree about using a PM and pacing for an all-day effort. I’ve done the DD twice and try and keep my avg. power just below IM pace. Ride a compact if you can, or at least a 28. I wouldn’t ride a tri-bike, it’s a road-bike kindofa ride. I also wouldn’t ride carbon clinchers or tubies, because of the descents and the possibility of multiple flats at such great a distance. Also, keep on top of your food and drink. The rest stops are great, but a bonk in hour 9 is really unpleasant, and sunset comes quickly.
I won’t be there this year, but I’m sure you’ll have a great time. Enjoy the ride and enjoy the area. It’s a great event, (not a ‘race’), so have fun!
Thanks for sharing this info. I love events like this, where the event is built around the course. The course is the attraction and the challenge!
Best wishes with your event this weekend. I hope that it goes well.
Alex, from what I know of you and Lisa, I am pretty confident you two would be our “Gentlemen’s Race” winners if you were participating again this year. Having fun while riding is right up your alley.
I’m really glad to see you posting on here as I’m looking to do this Gran Fondo. Did I gather from what you said below that some parts of the road are gravel? Could you clarify this. Thanks.
Did it last year. It was great. My best advice is to take the DD easy for the first 120 miles. Find a fun group and go at it together. Use a compact and with a 28 or 30T gear in the back.
jsmith:
You are going to love it. Both Kyle and Lisa have provided excellent feedback. I agree the first half and second half are completely different rides. I really prefer the latter half. They are much more like the stuff I have ridden in Europe (Pyrenees) and Southern California where I’m from (San Gabriel mountains). I have no qualms about using this as a training event for an Ironman, but not in the way that you might think. I don’t use it for the physical test it puts upon you, but rather the mental wear of riding your bike for 8+ hours. The constant and unrelenting climbs tests you mentally and that’s exactly the type of preparation that leads to Ironman success! The bike course at IMMT will be cake walk compared to the DD.
Having said all that its the toughest ride I have done in the world, bar one. The Circle of the Dead in the Pyrenees would have to take that honor. Google it or see the great Rapha vimeo on it. One word: EPIC! Have a good time and I’ll see you out. Look for a RATS jersey.
I’m really glad to see you posting on here as I’m looking to do this Gran Fondo. Did I gather from what you said below that some parts of the road are gravel? Could you clarify this. Thanks.
Details like these and much more are on the website and in the Athletes Guide. The Diabolical Double has 1.5 miles of gravel and all other rides none. Blue Lick Rd. Triathletes tend to grouse about it. Roadies tend to beg for more like it. I’ll withhold my opinion, except that it is in the course, so deduce from that what you may… It’s about 1 mile gradual downhill through a pine forest with a creek running alongside, then 0.5 miles uphill. This video can give you a glimpse of what the road and climb is like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jfz3CzUxM0o#!&t=130s
One more question: what, if any, kind of taper do folks do for something like this? I did eagleman last week and rode 100 of what ever hills I could find in Montgomery county yesterday so I am thinking I will take it pretty easy - some easy running, swim a lot and little riding before next Saturday. Any other thoughts on what will give one the freshest legs for something like this?
So here is the deal on the Garrett County Gran Fondo: this was the hardest thing I have done on a bike and the most fun, too. I will be back every year going forward as long as I am able. Like the Savageman Triathlon, this was one of the best run events I have ever attended down to every detail: roads clearly marked, aid stations had everything you could need including some great cookies, superfriendly volunteers, SAG support on the course and at each rest stop, great post race bbq and even the pasta dinner on Friday was cool (my daughter was the tiny creature dancing in front of the bluegrass trio and loving it).
I followed half your advice: I DID not try to kill it on any of the timed climbs. To be fair, I was killing it some just to get up them. I DID NOT, however, think long and hard at mile 60 and do the 102 mile version. While you were 1000 percent right that the 102 would be a monster in its own right, its pretty hard to not go for the full enchilada when you have come that far. I am not sure of the name of some of the climbs but there is one in the middle before the 60 mile rest stop that was just insanely steep. No reasonable person would try to ride a bicycle up such a thing. I have never wall papered up hills before but I saw people doing it on this climb (others were just walking) so I did, too. I ended up using the technique quite a few more times the rest of the day. In alot of ways this was more harder and more fun than an IM. I have done 7 IMs and by now I know enough what to do to make sure I finish. Here, on mile 120 of 125 I was truly not sure in my mind I would make it. And the climb to the finish was really really cool - you just hit it and go nuts for a mile straight up with folks screaming along the side of the road and then collapse in a pile at the finish. Epic.
The 125 mile ride took me 11:03 to complete with 9:33 riding time for an average of 13.1 miles an hour. I did it on a specialized shiv tri-bike which was not a big deal going up but it would have been nice to have had the stability of a road bike screaming down some of those long steep descents. I rode a 50/34 and 11/28 and would have LOVED a couple more gears. Next year it will be a road bike with shorty aero bars fo the less steep descents and a 32 tooth back cog.
The only thing I would change about the ride is that you could probably do without the dirt/rock road section. It wasn’t that hard physically as there were alot of much more steep sections but it was just trashing bikes. I saw 5 different folks changing flats or of their bikes dealing with bent wheels in a one mile segment. Maybe its not like this every year but there were alot of big rocks in the trail and avoiding them was just a matter of luck on the slight downhill sections. The wheels on the type of bikes folks ride in one of these events were just not made for that stuff. That all said, I am back next year regardless. Thanks for putting on such an amazing event.
I agree with all this. This was my second tilt at the Diabolical Double at GCGF, and it was even more fun than last year. It’s an amazing ride: so tough, and so well organized. And this is one event that the family needs zero persuading to join me for (they don’t ride - they have fun in the lakes and waterfalls while I’m torturing myself).
Last year I focused too much on the steep, named early climbs (where ‘early’ means first 60 miles), and didn’t have enough respect for all that came after, whether the long steady drags, or the drip, drip, drip of 200-300’ climbs that keep coming at you but barely register on the ride profile because there are so damn many of them. I followed Kyle’s advice to hold back early on, and I was very happy with my new 11-28 cassette. I was just 5-10% slower on the first half climbs, but it made a whole load of difference, as I made up all that time in the final third, and was able to attack the finish climb up Wisp Mtn. Total time was just one minute shy of last year, despite being out there for 10+ hours. And that probably had something to do with stopping to take pictures of my freshly laid brick in the Westernport Wall.
Fabulous event. Hope to be back again and again. Thanks as ever to Kyle and his incredible army of helpers.
$75 for Diabolical Double. $750 for IM. Pick your poison.
Glad you enjoyed the ride. It was a hot day which did not make it any easier. We definitely hauled a lot more people home than in year’s past, which I think was a combination of there being more people taking part who have no business being out there (shorter rides in particular) and the heat (impacting the longer rides).
Regarding the gravel stretch. Here is what I had to say earlier in this thread:
The Diabolical Double has 1.5 miles of gravel and all other rides none. Blue Lick Rd. Triathletes tend to grouse about it. Roadies tend to beg for more like it. I’ll withhold my opinion, except that it is in the course, so deduce from that what you may
Funny how that continues to hold true. The first words out of the mouth of Ian Spivack, a Cat 1 roadie who beat Philip Graves record over Big Savage Mountain during the Hill Climb on the following day, when he finished the Diabolical Double on Saturday was “That gravel road was awesome! You need to get more of that!”
Rocketship tri bikes like the Shiv may not be ideal for the Diabolical Double. Carbon rims and spokes definitely are not. I know of at least 3 cases of carbon rims that melted on descents. When you know you are going down a 7 mile climb which includes 1 mile at 15%, it may be best to leave those carbon rims at home.
Good weekend, though. Lots of fun in a suffering kind of way was had by many.
MORE GRAVEL!!!
I’ll never forget grinding up that climb last year, hearing a banjo, and thinking…“DELIVERANCE???”
Such a great ride. Sad to not have done it this year. Hilly Billy needs to move to a different weekend!