I’m having fun using my new Powertap and looking at results using Garmin training centre and Golden Cheetah.
However, the two bits of software give quite different values for average power - Garmin much higher than Golden Cheetah. Is GC maybe doing an average including zeros and Garmin an average of non zero values?
Any ideas much appreciated.
Now just got to find a road to do the FTP protocol test on to find out the scores on the doors…
thanks
Make sure you include zeros in your Garmin. It a user defined setting.
Question to make sure I am undersntading this…
So if you have the zeros then it becomes a more accurate of the real avg power verses without the zeros, does it become more representative of your normalized power for that lap?
Thanks.
With zeros it’s representative of your real avg power. For example, I can ride 300w for 10 mins, then stop on the side of the road and rest for 10 mins. Without zeros your avg power is 300w. With zeros (which includes your rest time) your avg power is 150w. 150 is more representative of your full 20 min workout. Normalized power is different and in some cases is close to your avg power with zeros, other times they are not close, so you can’t really say they are the same value.
Makes sense, thanks.
wouldn’t you want an auto-pause to exclude non-moving zero, but include zeros attributed to coasting?
Better to do manual stop/pause. Cleaner file.
Whether you’re coasting or stopped, you’re still resting.
wouldn’t you want an auto-pause to exclude non-moving zero, but include zeros attributed to coasting?
Actually, I’m pretty sure that the Garmin excludes non-moving zeroes even when auto pause is turned off.
kangelly is right. Weather your are costing downhill at 40 mph for 10 mins or stopped at a traffic light, you are still resting. My understanding is that zero watts is resting, which is recovery, so those zeros should be included in the average power to get a real representation of the physiological stress (or strain?) of your training.
Coasting downhill or around corners are part of the course though, and your watt numbers for the course would be refelcted in the analysis, having to stop for traffick requirements really wouldn’t be what one would consider part of the course. If the amount of time stopped physiologically effects your performance to any real degree (such as they likely would for a high intensity 20-30 minutes total ride, but might not for 4-6 hour ride pace) then the numbers are really not completely reliable regadless whether you include the stopped time or do not.
"Coasting downhill or around corners are part of the course though, and your watt numbers for the course would be refelcted in the analysis, "
This was my only point. Include the zero watts during these times so when you read your avg power during a ride, it will be the same as when you analyze it after with software. The OP asked the question why avg power was higher on Garmin compared to post-ride analysis software, and if you include the zeros from your ride, there should be no reason the values are different; they should be the same.
And I agree with you, it really only has an effect on shorter rides. When I am on a long ride, and stop to refill bottles, etc. even if I keep my timer going for 5 mins, my avg power for the ride only drops by about 1 watt, because it is such a small amount time compared to the total ride.
Actually, I’m pretty sure that the Garmin excludes non-moving zeroes even when auto pause is turned off.
It depends what type of power meter you have. With a Cinqo, it quickly goes to “null” power when you stop, which isn’t included in the average, no matter what settings you have. With a PowerTap or Power2Max, it goes to 0W when stopped, and that will be included in the average if you have chosen the option to include zeroes.
As others have suggested, I also have my Joule set to include zeros for power. The primary reason is that I like to compare my rides to check my progress in fitness. I live in a hilly area and sometimes I pedal down the hills (like when I have a headwind) and sometimes I don’t. The only way I can compare yesterday’s ride with a ride on the same route a month or two ago is to know that I have recorded all of my output (or lack of output) over the distance.
Greg
if you’re already using a third party software (like golden cheetah, wko+, etc) that gives you your true average then I’d keep your garmin set to throw out the zeroes (which it sounds like you already have). I have noticed that my average power on the garmin ends up being fairly close (5-8 watts lower on average) to my normalized Power when I plug it into wko+ after my ride. NP is much more useful than your true average power (not throwing out zeroes)…IMO. With the garmin setup this way, it gives me a close enough approximation of my NP while riding for my purposes (without spending the money on a joule). I must stress that it’s NOT perfect before I get flamed by the ST power meter police.
thanks for all these points.
regarding normalised power (it might be that I have not got to this in the book yet)
will golden cheetah show me this?
I’ve found and used the screen where it does a calculation of Critical Power but not found anything that appears to be normalised power