G8 was a huge success... or was it?

The Coffee Shop
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-though all eight nations promised $50 billion a year in aid by 2010, the U.S had pledged no new money.

The US gives lots of support and cash world wide. A pledge is pointless.

-the amount itself is inadequate - $25 billion was needed now with another $50 billion in 2010 if poverty targets are really going to be met.

Money given will not cure poverty.

-the announcement of $50 billion on debt cancellation is actually not a new offer. It’s the same offer which they made at the Sheffield meeting three weeks ago. It’s no new money at all.

What good does debt cancellation do?

-the worst thing, which to underline all of that, if that is wasn’t bad enough, is that the money is going to 18 countries, highly indebted, poor countries who are required to get the money, to sign up to privatization of their public services, health, education and water.

Problem?

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Money given will not cure poverty.

It would cure mine.

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Anybody who thinks that giving Africa more money, or forgiving old debts, is going to solve poverty in Africa probably also thinks Iraq can be solved with more UN involvement.

It’s like giving money to a tweaker and thinking they’ll use it to get job training. Ain’t gonna happen.

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“you haven’t probably read anything in the links i provided (or haven’t understood) so you wouldn’t know”

How about you demonstrate your own knowledge level instead substituting a cut and paste for actual discussion.

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The US has given some 500 plus billion in current dollars to Africa over the last 40 odd years. I don’t see that the money has improved anything.

Presumably, doing more and more of the same thing will eventually give a different result.

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Kind of off topic, but I remember a first hand story of natives on an island that had A bomb testing in WWII.

They chief would find tell the affected / birth defect kids, to marry others with defects and have children. This would get about $40K in US aid for them / kids . They joked two Ford F-250s and a new roof.

It was their way of working the system, I might have done the same in their sandals. People play the cards they are dealt.

Enough about Aid funds ,

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Ahhh, that old chestnut. The poor are just a bunch of lazy scammers. What a good Calvinist you are!

BTW, this is one of the best versions I’ve heard. I love the way it doesn’t even dispute the fact that these “natives” were nuked to the point where elevated levels of birth defects were so common. Geee… I wonder what happened to the fish they use to live off before they learned it was easier to cravenly swindle the US gov out of aid rather than just go fishing a couple hours a day? Oh yeah, the fish were nuked, too. And “first hand story” - that’s precious. It doesn’t even pretend to be real. Plus, A-bombs weren’t tested in the Pacific WWII, they were used! (They were tested in the South Pacific after WWII.) And joking about F-250’s - in the 40’s? Man that’s an awful lot of dissembling (“dis-assembling” for you Bush fans) in such a short space. Did I miss the smileys?

As they say, the plural of anecdote is not data.

A big part of the reason that aid/money does so little to alleviate poverty is that it comes attached with strings - heck, ropes, no wait, chains - that undercut any ability for impoverished countries to actually develop any wealth.

If you’re interested you can start here:

George Monbiot is consistently excellent and concise on these issues. http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/06/14/spin-lies-and-corruption/

Peter Griffith’s “An Economist’s Tale” is also excellent. See here for a discussion: http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/08/how-economists-kill-people/

PS. Slowguy, that’s a pretty lame ‘excuse’ for ignorance. If you don’t care, just say so. No one can make you give a shit about your fellow humans. You have the right to sail through life with your head up your ass, all the while flipping the world a finger. Just don’t pretend that’s not what you are doing. Anyway, you’re better off with the “Clinton did it too” defense. http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/06/elllllloooo-clinton.html)

Further off-topic, why does it motivate “conservatives” so strongly that the poor are (supposedly) just gaming the system, but when Enron or Walmart does it, at even greater public expense, to decry the craven motives of the super-rich is “class warfare” and supposedly beyond the pale?

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It was a publicity stunt. That’s about it:

A few points:This is only a small portion of the debt, so the difference it makes is minimal. Private debt and other debt is still massive.

Historically it really is not the West’s fault Africa was always poor, but it is the West’s fault Africa and some other poor nations remain so screwed. Just look at free trade (ha!) and the IMF (and the U.S.) forcing countries to basically change their economic systems just to get aid and debt relief. It’s all about the strings attached.

The history of Africa is pretty simple: Colonies were owned by the West which just wreaked havoc on most of them. When they became too much of a pain-in-the ass in the 1960s or so, it was like, OK, BOOM! You’re independent now DEAL! Every educated person left, the half-built infrastraucture went to hell, there were civil wars, the list goes on. Even so, a few African countries are just getting going and things are better (Mozambique is a good example) … Then there are places like Zim where a madman holds the power and well, its worse than ever there … I’m personally amazed that so many African countries are doing as well as they are, all things considered.

This G8 and Live8 crap won’t make much of a difference. Maybe a few people will get a little more educated about the recent history and the situation but that’s about it … In the end, its in the world’s interest for the poor of the world to do better (more trade, less crime, less terrorism) but in the short term, the big companies win out: Their policies influence the West’s trade policies and the really poor countries just keep getting screwed.

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Helitech wrote

Kind of off topic, but I remember a first hand story of natives on an island that had A bomb testing in WWII.

They chief would find tell the affected / birth defect kids, to marry others with defects and have children. This would get about $40,000 in US aid for them / kids . They joked , two Ford F-250s and a new roof.

It was their way of working the system, I might have done the same in their sandals. People play the cards they are dealt.

Enough about Aid funds ,

Sandoval / time line expert , wrote

BTW, this is one of the best versions I’ve heard. I love the way it doesn’t even dispute the fact that these “natives” were nuked to the point where elevated levels of birth defects were so common. Geee… I wonder what happened to the fish they use to live off before they learned it was easier to cravenly swindle the US gov out of aid rather than just go fishing a couple hours a day? Oh yeah, the fish were nuked, too. And “first hand story” - that’s precious. It doesn’t even pretend to be real. Plus, A-bombs weren’t tested in the Pacific WWII, they were used! (They were tested in the South Pacific after WWII.)

“As they say, the plural of anecdote is not data.”

Helitech wrote

I think you missed the gist of the story.

Ah , you got me, my time line was wrong. I have flown by the concrete dome on enewetak as I remember ,with a 2 or 5 mile ring of resticted airspace .

While working as a helicopter pilot, we docked in Majuro atoll to transship fish . Its was in the late 80s early 90s, the lagoon is named Nora and sally for the north and south ends -from the days they fired missiles into it for testing.

I saw a mans facial defect (drooped /melted face) on one side only. A local told me of the breeding for bucks story, as there were more than a few walking around. I don’t judge, the mom with 3 prostitute daughters, the guy who cuts lumber in the rain forest, the African that sells animal horns / parts.

It may seem odd from your recliner, but people will do anything to live better.
Come on you can still type ,with your foot in your mouth .

                    All the best ,, HK  6500 hrs helicopter.