Hi,
My main goal for the year is to run a sub-3 hour marathon - 2:59.59 will do nicely!
Thus far I have only done two marathons: 5 years ago (4:09), when I was just starting to train regularly and in 2006 - the Marathon leg in IM France (4:06… I had some stomach problems!).
I ran a 1:26 Half Marathon last year and did not have to worry about fuel at all - I ran it straight, I doubt that this will work for a Full Marathon!
What are you currently using on your long runs? IMO you should be practicing your nutrition on your long runs so you minimize surprises on race day.
Personally, I use a concentrated gel flask of Infinit chased with water from the course. I’m not quite sub-3 though, FWIW.
I ran a 1:27 half on Sunday (HR 161) in anticipation of going sub 3 later this year (I am a 40y/o father of 3 so I like your handle). I took 2 Hammer gels with me and used one. What I have been doing on my 20 mile training runs (HR around 140–7:30-7:40 mile pace) is to have a hammergel every 5 miles or so. Each run feels great energy wise at the end. The problem with practicing what you will do on race day is that in training (if you want to avoid injuries), you run in a lower zone and burn more fat for energy. Can’t do this on race day so you have to plan on taking on more fuel then you train with unless you train long at the planned HR zone.
I’m also doing the Firman institute advanced marathon program so I run 35ish miles a week over 3 quality runs and then spend another 3 days on the bike. This will hopefully ease the transition into IMLP plans aftet the early April mary. Last night was 12 sets of 400m on 5:24 mile pace, lots of speedwork in the program.
Interresting topic as I am actually also contemplating sub 3H this year (@ Ottawa Mary End of May) or at least very close to 3H (1/2 Mary 1 1/2 month earlier will give me a good hint of what I can do!).
I ran 3h18 last year in October and I had 3 (maybe 4 gels) plus a little bit of sports drink and water. I had good diner and breakfast (banana + Ensure plus + 2 gels (actually Cliff shot Blocks) but I think I was a little short on fuel toward the end which could mean based on my pacing, I probably ended up going a little bit “too fast” early trying to bank a little bit of/too much time.
So for my next Mary trying to go sub 3h, I will probably to go for 4 maybe 5 gels since that I will try to take every 30 mins starting @ 30 mins + some sports drinks. (& water to digest the gels).
The funny thing is I would probably need less fuel to run in 3h30+ simply because I would probably be running @ the “edge” for sub 3H so I think one important aspect of fueling is simply training so that hopefully you have a little bit of cushion to hit your sub 3h without relying “critically” on fuel during the mary…
Thanks - that seems reasonable, no gels after 24km surprises me though!
I do 2 M paced runs and 1 long (E) run each week… Sometimes more, sometimes less.
The M runs are at 35 mins at the moment - adding 5 minutes per week.
The Long run is at 20km at the moment, adding 10-12% per week.
osugasman,
I’m planning to PR in Stockholm - It’s a pretty flat course but can be quite windy at that time of the year (May 31st)
As for my handle; I became a first time dad this year and decided that I could not do tri properly so decided to re-define myself for the year - I have yet to earn it though!
I ran a 2:56 in my last marathon taking in a Gu every 45 minutes and Gatorade every 15 minutes. I carry my own Gu and Gatorade so that I can eat and drink whenever I want. I train following the same nutrition schedule. Good luck.
The problem with practicing what you will do on race day is that in training (if you want to avoid injuries), you run in a lower zone and burn more fat for energy. Can’t do this on race day so you have to plan on taking on more fuel then you train with unless you train long at the planned HR zone.
while this is true, it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be practicing it.
the way i look at it, it’s possible that something that doesn’t give you troubles on a long training run would give you troubles on race day.
but, if something DOES give you troubles on a long training run - say, for instance, just hypothetically, on one of your long training runs you had to rush into a nearby woods, drop trow, and then wipe your freezing butt with a leaf, you know, just hypothetically and all - then you would know that you have to avoid making the same choices on race day!
Fueling for a marathon in this range is tricky. You will definatly need to be taking in some form of carbohydrates, but you don’t need a huge amount. Keep in mind that at typical marathon levels of exertion, you have about 2 hours worth of carbohydrates stored in your muscles and your liver - it’s that last 30+ minutes that’s key. However, you can’t wait until the 2 hour mark - if you do, it will be too late and you will likley bonk. You have start early and get in the amount of carbohydrates that you need - this will be about 250 - 350 calories. How you do that is up to you. sports beverage on the course or gels are the obvious sources. Make sure if using gels you are also getting an ample amount of water as well. A gel sitting in the gut undiluted, is way to concentrated and may cause gastric shut down.
is to have a hammergel every 5 miles or so. Each run feels great energy wise at the end.
One of the goals of training is to force your body to rely on the stored fats that it has. You don´t do that by providing a wealth of carbs… you body will use that rather then optimizing it´s fat-burning abilities.
A long run is not supposed to feel great energywise. I recomend to eat as little as possible without running completely empty.
You are going to get a lot of opinions obviously.
I would take in one gel every 3 miles, and some sort of carb drink that sits well with you every other mile. In training I would test out some different drinks. That’s what’s worked for me and others I’ve coached who have gone under 3:00. Good Luck!
What Axel said…get your half marathon down to 1:24 or so…and at your weight you should need minimal fuel…every time I went sub 3 was on Gatorade only and perhaps a gel and some coke.
My last marathon I hit the water and Gatorade every mile and took in one Hammer gel around mile 18, that was it. I don’t train with Gel so I don’t race with it, there is enough fuel in the tank from a proper breakfast to fuel a sub 3 time. I think the Gatorade helped a lot too, it was pretty concentrated so it may have had some extra calories to fuel the effort.
Fueling: Gatorade’s formulation is designed to be used alone–that is to say without dilution from water.
You won’t dehydrate over the course of the marathon, so don’t worry about water.
If you need to take in 2 servings in the first 1:40 minutes or so, that’s 16oz. and 280-300 calories. Pour that much in a water bottle and run with it during your longer MP runs and long runs. Drink it and see if it works.
On another day, pour the 2 servings into cups about the size of what you get on the course and practice sipping from the cup. Note how many sips you need to get 2 servings in. Finally, either carry the gatorde with you during the race, or figure out how many stops there will be along the course that offer gatorade and do the math.
I am about the same size and age as you (65kg’s, 1,78m, 43 years old) and have run many sub 3 marathons (Best 2:48), the formula I have found that works for me is
1 large plate of pasta the night before.
1 small breakfast, ie toast, Jam and tea.
I only use Gel and water on the road,
Drink water early in the race even if not thirsty, then every +/- 3km’s through out the race (quantity depends on temperature)
1 Gel at +/- 15km with water.
1 Gel at +/- 27km with water.
1 Gel at +/- 35km with water
