So I have a bicuspid aortic valve. Found it pretty early (I’m still in my twenties), and I currently have no complications from it. Left ventricle good, aorta normal diameter, no regurgitation etc. It has changed how I workout; I don’t do compound lifts, and I try to limit time I spend close to my max heart rate.
I recently did a 20 min ftp test and it went really well. Solid bump in ftp and fairly even pacing. My heart rate was, as expected, pretty high for the duration of the test. Afterwards I felt pretty nauseous and had a feeling akin to anxiety in my chest. My resting hear rate was elevated for a few days after.
I want to continue to monitor my progress with ftp testing, but I feel that the 20 min test is probably not safe for me. I haven’t done any other type of ftp test so I’m looking for input on one that would have a reasonable, repeatable estimate and wouldn’t be so hard on my heart. Thinking maybe 2x8min or ramp test, any advice is appreciated.
So I have a bicuspid aortic valve. Found it pretty early (I’m still in my twenties), and I currently have no complications from it. Left ventricle good, aorta normal diameter, no regurgitation etc. It has changed how I workout; I don’t do compound lifts, and I try to limit time I spend close to my max heart rate.
I recently did a 20 min ftp test and it went really well. Solid bump in ftp and fairly even pacing. My heart rate was, as expected, pretty high for the duration of the test. Afterwards I felt pretty nauseous and had a feeling akin to anxiety in my chest. My resting hear rate was elevated for a few days after.
I want to continue to monitor my progress with ftp testing, but I feel that the 20 min test is probably not safe for me. I haven’t done any other type of ftp test so I’m looking for input on one that would have a reasonable, repeatable estimate and wouldn’t be so hard on my heart. Thinking maybe 2x8min or ramp test, any advice is appreciated.
there are a few options for trying to determine your “FTP” but all actually require efforts close to your point of exhaustion. Without that data it is not easily possible to extrapolate your “FTP” or such. One other option for training is DFA alpha. It shows your sympathetic/ parasympathetic relationship and has had some success in detecting certain limits such as first and second thresholds LT1 and LT2. More on this at the website for Dr. Bruce Rogers who is a foremost researcher on this topic. I would suggest for your purposes it would be good to use DFA alpha 1 as a way to monitor fitness, ie if you maintain DFA a1 higher than 0.75 and at a higher power input then your fitness is improving. The nice thing is it can tell you when things are getting too intense ie when DFA a1 falls to or below 0.5. That last point 0.5 is when your HRV (R-R) become chaotic and may indicate you are close to LT2. Now there is also a lot of issues with some individuals not responding in line with these demarcation points so in your situation the two points should be taken with a grain of salt but the good thing is it relates to your heart and that is something that may be beneficial in your circumstances. You might want to reach out to Bruce Rogers for some advice as well as talk to your cardiologist since I assume they know something about HRV and may be better placed to advise you in your circumstances.
One final piece of testing advice is to look into the LSCT (Lamberts Submaximal Cycling Test), it is heart rate based but power is also part of the measure. It can also be a way to monitor your performance without going to exhaustion. see: http://www.scienceandcycling.com/lsct/how-to-perform-lsct/ but there are other resources you can find with a quick googlefoo! Good Luck!
If you are having chest discomfort following high intensity exercise I would make sure to clear that with your cardiologist before continuing to push through the symptoms in training.
there are a few options for trying to determine your “FTP” but all actually require efforts close to your point of exhaustion.
Yeah, testing generally means maximal efforts… 20 minute, 8 minute, ramp, either way you’re going to have to go super deep.
An alternative is to get more in tune with RPE. There’s a point where eventually you have a pretty good idea of what a threshold effort is supposed to feel like (or Z2 or VO2 etc.). Once those efforts start to feel easier than they should, it’s time to raise your FTP. Sure, it’s not as precise as proper testing, but it also doesn’t require you to do maximal efforts that will really stress your heart.
Trainer road now can estimate your ftp based upon workouts competed
No need for a ramp test or anything like that
Also Xert, Golden Cheetah, Strava, WKO5 (mFTP). And probably others. With differing levels of scientific backing and transparency. TrainerRoad was kind of late to the game in this regard.
But per the above posts, there’s no easy out here either. The more workouts you do that push your limits over various durations, the better the estimates.
Trainer road now can estimate your ftp based upon workouts competed
No need for a ramp test or anything like that
Also Xert, Golden Cheetah, Strava, WKO5 (mFTP). And probably others. With differing levels of scientific backing and transparency. TrainerRoad was kind of late to the game in this regard.
But per the above posts, there’s no easy out here either. The more workouts you do that push your limits over various durations, the better the estimates.
That’s an interesting idea, I use intervals.icu which can do the same thing. The estimated FTP is usually driven from my FTP test, so that kinda falls into the same trap you mention. I guess since I repeat workouts a lot I can just manually raise my ftp for zwift ~5w if I feel like workout are getting too easy, and over time the estimate ftp will work itself out
That’s an interesting idea, I use intervals.icu which can do the same thing. The estimated FTP is usually driven from my FTP test, so that kinda falls into the same trap you mention. I guess since I repeat workouts a lot I can just manually raise my ftp for zwift ~5w if I feel like workout are getting too easy, and over time the estimate ftp will work itself out
That sounds reasonable. I think people get hung up on having a super-precise FTP estimate, when often just a general idea is useful for a lot of purposes.
You might try the ramp test. It’s lower overall stress, but the last minute is a world of pain at total maximal effort. I have no idea what that means to your situation.
Trainer road now can estimate your ftp based upon workouts competed
No need for a ramp test or anything like that
Also Xert, Golden Cheetah, Strava, WKO5 (mFTP). And probably others. With differing levels of scientific backing and transparency. TrainerRoad was kind of late to the game in this regard.
But per the above posts, there’s no easy out here either. The more workouts you do that push your limits over various durations, the better the estimates.
TR ‘claims’ their protocol doesn’t require max efforts. Given that the other systems require a robust PDC with max efforts at various durations, I am skeptical of their claims.
TR ‘claims’ their protocol doesn’t require max efforts. Given that the other systems require a robust PDC with max efforts at various durations, I am skeptical of their claims.
Yeah, they’re the ones who are among the most opaque in terms of scientific validity. We don’t know what features are used in their AI model. We don’t know how they validated FTP estimation vs. ground truth, etc. I have some implicit trust in TR. They have good people, real data scientists, etc. But they’re a near total black box.
They’re not totally alone there, though. I think Dr. Coggan got tired of people ripping off features from prior versions of WKO (e.g. the entire PMC chart system), etc, so the scientific backing on a lot of the newer techniques (e.g. mFTP) is a lot more closely held.
I’m curious to see how it works as a TR user, so I just enabled the FTP estimate feature, and will go ahead and do a Ramp Test at the same time and see how close the two numbers are as n=1 comparison.
That sounds reasonable. I think people get hung up on having a super-precise FTP estimate, when often just a general idea is useful for a lot of purposes.
You might try the ramp test. It’s lower overall stress, but the last minute is a world of pain at total maximal effort. I have no idea what that means to your situation.
My guess is that would be better. I’ve done some zwift races and the last minute or so is usually all out close to max heart rate and I feel fine after recovering for a few mins. I think it’s the combination of high heart rate and extended duration of the 20min test that makes me feel bad. As for the ramp I’m mostly concerned with the relatability as I’m more of an aerobic athlete and I’m not sure how accurate the test will be for me. But I guess I won’t know until I try it.
TR ‘claims’ their protocol doesn’t require max efforts. Given that the other systems require a robust PDC with max efforts at various durations, I am skeptical of their claims.
Yeah, they’re the ones who are among the most opaque in terms of scientific validity. We don’t know what features are used in their AI model. We don’t know how they validated FTP estimation vs. ground truth, etc. I have some implicit trust in TR. They have good people, real data scientists, etc. But they’re a near total black box.
They’re not totally alone there, though. I think Dr. Coggan got tired of people ripping off features from prior versions of WKO (e.g. the entire PMC chart system), etc, so the scientific backing on a lot of the newer techniques (e.g. mFTP) is a lot more closely held.
I’m curious to see how it works as a TR user, so I just enabled the FTP estimate feature, and will go ahead and do a Ramp Test at the same time and see how close the two numbers are as n=1 comparison.
My guess would be it is based upon the workouts and corresponding FTP test results of their members
My guess would be it is based upon the workouts and corresponding FTP test results of their members
Their intent is to get rid of the Ramp Test. So I doubt it’s based on an FTP test. I mean the estimate. Their ground truth validation is probably based on the Ramp Tests.
And of course the estimate is based on workouts. The question is “how.” Workout data goes into “AI.” “AI” estimates FTP. That’s about all we know.
I want to continue to monitor my progress with ftp testing, but I feel that the 20 min test is probably not safe for me. I haven’t done any other type of ftp test so I’m looking for input on one that would have a reasonable, repeatable estimate and wouldn’t be so hard on my heart. Thinking maybe 2x8min or ramp test, any advice is appreciated.
TR ‘claims’ their protocol doesn’t require max efforts. Given that the other systems require a robust PDC with max efforts at various durations, I am skeptical of their claims.
Yeah, they’re the ones who are among the most opaque in terms of scientific validity. We don’t know what features are used in their AI model. We don’t know how they validated FTP estimation vs. ground truth, etc. I have some implicit trust in TR. They have good people, real data scientists, etc. But they’re a near total black box.
They’re not totally alone there, though. I think Dr. Coggan got tired of people ripping off features from prior versions of WKO (e.g. the entire PMC chart system), etc, so the scientific backing on a lot of the newer techniques (e.g. mFTP) is a lot more closely held.
I’m curious to see how it works as a TR user, so I just enabled the FTP estimate feature, and will go ahead and do a Ramp Test at the same time and see how close the two numbers are as n=1 comparison.
I’ve seen Dr. Coggan address his relationship w/ TP, WKO5, the book Training and Racing with a PowerMeter, etc… many times, and each time he denies any significant involvement.
My guess would be it is based upon the workouts and corresponding FTP test results of their members
Their intent is to get rid of the Ramp Test. So I doubt it’s based on an FTP test. I mean the estimate. Their ground truth validation is probably based on the Ramp Tests.
And of course the estimate is based on workouts. The question is “how.” Workout data goes into “AI.” “AI” estimates FTP. That’s about all we know.
In their data base of tens of this ads of workouts
Riders a, n , c and d completed workout Ww at 180 watts. They do an ftp test ( ramp test call it whatever you like). They show an FTP of 230
Rider Z competes the same workout at 180 watts. Guess what TR will estimate their FTP AS . . .