Setting up to do my first ftp test, but the only section of road in my area that would be safe to do it, would require several almost 180 degree turns. I know in an ideal setting straight and flat would be best, but it’s just not an option for me. I was thinking that in order to offset the effect of the 180 degree turns, I could set up the garmin to exclude zeros. I train with zeros, but in this case, would it make sense to exclude because of the turns. I don’t plan on doing any coasting because the section of road is still closed to traffic. Would love some feedback. I’m trying to do a true ftp test in order to work on ideal pacing for races. I already have a good idea of my indoor ftp, thanks to TrainerRoad. Thanks in advance.
I wouldn’t. You’re getting a bit of rest on the turns and will be going harder on the exit so that should balance out the zeros. I would just set my meter to give the interval average and go harder on the exit of each turn until the power gets back up to the avg. You’re correct it’s not ideal but if that’s where you train it should be alright.
how long can you ride before doing the 180 turn? if it s 5min…why not simply do something like 10X5min or if you are time crunch…6X5min at 100% on 1min rest…will be dam easy to get your FTP out of this…
any test will give you your ftp if you can interpret the data…
Anything other than a full 60 min test is an approximation of FTP, and i’ve found that the shorter the test is the bigger the approximation of FTP.
Personally i wouldn’t recommend 5 minute intervals to gauge your FTP
how long can you ride before doing the 180 turn? if it s 5min…why not simply do something like 10X5min or if you are time crunch…6X5min at 100% on 1min rest…will be dam easy to get your FTP out of this…
any test will give you your ftp if you can interpret the data…
Can you expand on this please. I wasn’t aware even Coggan himself can accurately estimate FTP from a few intervals like the above.
Or do you have your own software? I suppose you could estimate using some sort of mathematical model, but then not everyone fits the same power duration curve.
For example, many people might have an FTP which is 96% of their maximum average 20 minute power, but someone else’s might be only 92%. Depends on the athlete and what training they do.
Sure you can estimate FTP when you have enough data over time,(WKO4) will d this, but I’m interested how you can interpret it from a few 5 minute intervals.
I didn’t know that they had software that will estimate over time. Have you found it to be accurate? In addition to WKO 4, are there other options for this?
I understand WKO 4 will have auto determination of FTP when it is released.
I’m not aware of any other software that does this.
Thanks.
the OP is asking for a compromise. Yes, it would be a approximation but we can be relatively accurate on this estimate if he use data from is past few weeks and a test like i was mentionnning. it not perfect and not my first choice but we can still get good usable number out of this.
no software, just looking at data, his training program, how tired was he going in etc…
.
In decreasing order of reliability:
from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of performance is performance itself).
from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training.
using critical power testing and analysis.
based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it is done).
from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
from inspection of a ride file.
Note the key words “hard”, “routinely”, and “average” in methods 1, 2, and 4.
No good, relatively flat 8 mile sections of road for a good test. I tried using my hilly route and managed a descent 5 minute test, then 2 minutes into a 20 minute test I got a flat. I wasn’t “feeling it” anyway.
I just use my indoor tests from previous months as a baseline and see how I progress in my “Breakthrough” workouts and keep an eye out for improvements in 60 & 90 minute average power. Otherwise, once the season starts, racing provides the best power tests.
I also watch for shifts in HR/NP ratio as a possible indicator for fitness improvements. If I average 240W on a ride and it was 140bpm one week then 135bpm the next there’s a possible improvement if other factors can be ruled out. I know since I’ve dramatically increased my mileage this year, leg fatigue really builds up for me, so I try to use secondary indicators for fitness improvement to keep me motivated. For example my legs weren’t there for a harder ride this morning, so I turned it into a long steady tempo ride but got some satisfaction out of seeing a low heart rate. Although a low HR also can indicate a certain amount of overreaching. So there’s that too.
i still have to do my FTP test. which would you guys say is the ideal method? outdoors or on a trainer? and which test is the beST? i was going to use trainerroad 20min test given.
Setting up to do my first ftp test, but the only section of road in my area that would be safe to do it, would require several almost 180 degree turns. I know in an ideal setting straight and flat would be best, but it’s just not an option for me. I was thinking that in order to offset the effect of the 180 degree turns, I could set up the garmin to exclude zeros. I train with zeros, but in this case, would it make sense to exclude because of the turns. I don’t plan on doing any coasting because the section of road is still closed to traffic. Would love some feedback. I’m trying to do a true ftp test in order to work on ideal pacing for races. I already have a good idea of my indoor ftp, thanks to TrainerRoad. Thanks in advance.
What makes you feel like your results would be different outdoors vs indoors?
Mine have come out identical every time I have attempted a 20 minute test done either outside or inside.
To date I have no reason to think they are. My training plan recommends testing both and several articles I’ve read suggest that is pretty typical to be different as well. Figured it was better safe than sorry. Believe me I would rather not test again. My. Legs are so sore today from yesterday’s indoor test.
Mine have come out identical every time I have attempted a 20 minute test done either outside or inside.
most people’s aren’t
test wherever you do the bulk of your training.
it is a guide to direct training zones, and measure progress.
most people’s aren’t
Interesting, I figured my experience was typical. I dont test often but I usually find that I am within 5% indoor or outdoor, and the difference +/- isnt consistent between them.
Inside, thermoregulation become a problem for many even with giant fans. The higher your FTP the more chance you have of this become a issue when testing inside.
For those people, doing the testing outside will yield a higher number. I m definitely one of those… and some people like you dont have this issue at all.
most people’s aren’t
^^^^This^^^^^
I’m 15-20 watts higher outside. I think it’s mostly the effect of being able to regulate temperature. But, as jackmott said, test where you train. I train mostly indoors, so I test indoors. I don’t use power much in races (crits, RR), so I’m not so concerned with my outside FTP. Also, It’s not so important which test protocol you use, as long as it’s consistent and repeatable.
Jake
most people’s aren’t
^^^^This^^^^^
I’m 15-20 watts higher outside. I think it’s mostly the effect of being able to regulate temperature. But, as jackmott said, test where you train. I train mostly indoors, so I test indoors. I don’t use power much in races (crits, RR), so I’m not so concerned with my outside FTP. Also, It’s not so important which test protocol you use, as long as it’s consistent and repeatable.
Jake
I’m the same. The feeling of speed motivates me a lot. There’s no sensation on the trainer except pain. I ride the trainer a lot, I just adjust the intervals based off an outdoor FTP test. They still hurt
I understand WKO 4 will have auto determination of FTP when it is released.
I’m not aware of any other software that does this.
In fact, there are about 7,230,000,000 versions of the software floating around right now that do just that. Some more accurate than others.
As for doing a 60 minute “test” for “true FTP” in training, that’s nearly impossible. The motivation needed for an all-out hour is best found in a race, and even then, good luck. 4 x 8-10 minutes with 1 minute of rest between would be a good indicator.