I’m staring at all the pretty WKO+ charts, and see that my power to weight ratio (W/KG) has not changed at all since January 2009… kinda stuck around 3 w/kg… Recent FTP test confirmed that current FTP is the same as what was recorded 6 months ago. In fact, I’m still trying to match my best CP20 and CP60 numbers achieved back in December/Nanuary (shortly after taking a short 2-week long off-season break).
Some background info: started training with power last season, and saw very good FTP gains… about 15% increase.
Training: normally do LT4 sets twice a week iterating between 6x8min, 4x10min, 3x15min at 90-100% of FTP. Mixing in a bit of speed and VO2Max intervals… Average weekly time in the saddle (including long ride): 5-6 hours. Main focus in triathlon is Half Iron distance.
My race day performance is still improving with every race, but that’s mostly due to gains in swimming/running efficiency and better pacing on the bike (1.04 VI during the last HIM). My weight is pretty much constant, so this is not a factor.
I’m pretty sure I’m not the first one to get into the same situation when FTP just doesn’t seem to be increasing any longer
I’m no expert but it sounds like you’re adapted to the same stress levels… probably need to mix it up more, add length to your intervals as the other guy said, and maybe start doing blocks of workouts for days in a row, intervals and hard tempo… basically shell yourself and suffer as much as you can and still recover.
I’d also say if you haven’t already to find a good group ride… Wednesday hammerfests and weekend hammerfests are great for pushing to new levels.
Finally, maybe do some bike focus blocks of 10 or even 15 hours a week of cycling?
Hardly suprising you are having trouble matching your CP20 numbers if your longest L4 set is 15 minutes…
I couldn’t disagree more. I’m not sure I’ve done a single, structured interval this year over 15 minutes (there may be on or two 18’s in there). My 20 MP has increased about 20% from November to the end of February, and about 2-3% since then.
The bigger issue seems to be that he’s just not doing them hard enough. Riding under your 60 MP for 8-15 minutes doesn’t provide for progressive overload after the first few workouts, unless the total volume is high.
There are different ways to skin a cat and all, but you don’t *need *to do 20 minute intervals to increase your 20 minute power (or your threshold power).
those numbers are based on your FTP. A rising tide raises all boats. Raising CP180 is good for specific race preparation, but I think most cyclists work on their FTP as a means of making themselves faster at all levels, save 1000 watt field sprint finishes. Then they go for VO2max to sharpen up and peak.
Are you telling me that if the OP trains his sprint power (doesnt get much harder than that), he wil see significant improvements in his FTP?
Not gunna happen my friend.
‘sprint power’ as in 8-30 seconds?? Yeah, that has a limited (though 30 seconds can certainly have some) effect on FTP…
‘sprint power’ as in 15 minutes? Yeah, intervals of 15 minutes or less will lead to significant improvements in his FTP–if he does them harder than he’s currently doing them.
For half iron distance, isn’t your CP 120, 150 , 180 much more important?
not really. The power/duration curve past 60 minutes is pretty damn flat (and there are physiological reasons for why that’s the case). Not perfectly flat, mind you–and I’m not saying that you never have to ride longer than an hour–but threshold power is really the key determinant of performance for a triathlete.
based on the op’s 3 w/kg, doesn’t the total interval time look pretty long? just a guess, but i know i’d have a hell of a time doing that many minutes in a workout at tt intensity. wonder if he’s getting enough quality out of them, particularly if there hasn’t been an improvement.
based on the op’s 3 w/kg, doesn’t the total interval time look pretty long? just a guess, but i know i’d have a hell of a time doing that many minutes in a workout at tt intensity. wonder if he’s getting enough quality out of them, particularly if there hasn’t been an improvement.
…says the guy doing 2 x 15?? I forgot you were still a junior!! what the hell?!?
Seriously, I think 3x15 or 4x12 is pretty reasonable, basically about 40-45 minutes of work @ 1.05% of FTP. I think it’s easy enough to tell: target your 20MP for 15 minutes on 5 off, then pull the pin when you can no longer maintain 3-4% of the target power.
actually where i saw a good jump was stringing together a bunch of the smackdown and other tts as training sessions, which are more like 1x21. bam! although sunday i’m also going to do the p/1/2 and m35+ 30k tts so that a certain team doesn’t crowd the podium.
speaking of which, shouldn’t you be on the trainer staring your loooong warm up for hood tt?
actually where i saw a good jump was stringing together a bunch of the smackdown and other tts as training sessions, which are more like 1x21. bam! although sunday i’m also going to do the p/1/2 and m35+ 30k tts so that a certain team doesn’t crowd the podium.
speaking of which, shouldn’t you be on the trainer staring your loooong warm up for hood tt?
hating is what I do! 1x21:00 huh? I’m all about riding as little as possible, so that may work!
you know my thoughts on warming up. Never too early to hop on the trainer…
I’m with footwerx and roady … regardless of what you are doing now, do something different immediately, actually yesterday … not in any level of preference or order of effectiveness AND since losing weight doesn’t seem to be a choice …
6 x 3min uphill @ 110-120% of FTP …
2hr30min - 3hr at a higher TSS than you have been doing … whatever it takes to get it there … inlude some “tempo” every 30-60min of your long ride
More miles … do a couple weeks where you load the bike volume heavier than normal OR just skip a long run a couple weekends and do another longer ride
One of my favorites … find a training partner that is also doing half IM stuff. Do a 40-60 mile course as a 2 man TT and see how fast you guys can roll thru it. Pulls at whatever length you want but they should get shorter as the ride progresses. Your pulls should be harder than “race watts” sitting in should be slightly lower.
Hope that helps give you some ideas … good luck in the search of more watts
Good ideas, guys. did not mention it, but I do group hammerfests every other weekend (usually a 30-miler at 96%+ of FTP). That’s my favorite part of training
Like some suggested, most likely my body has adopted to the same ~50 minute of LT4 interval sessions… Maybe I’m not pushing myself hard enough too. Will try to ramp up to 105% of FTP. Also need to get a bigger fan and see if that helps
Adding more miles also sounds like a good idea. 5-6 hours per week doesn’t seem to cut it any longer.
Swear I’ll squeeze 300 watts FTP out of me eventually!
what do you mean ‘sprint power?’ to train a sprint you’d be doing :30 or :60 puke sets, not 20 min.
the longest threshold interval workout i’ve done is 3x10 or 2x15 and i’ve had plenty of improvement this year.
Yes, I meant 30 or 60 seconds sets.
Roady said you dont need do to 20 min sets to improve 20MP or FTP, but I still maintain you do need longer sets in there to build your FTP.
The point I was trying to make (poorly I may add!) is this.
If you are a typical MOP’er, anything more than you are currently doing will be beneficial.
If you are already at the pointy end of the field or have been training for a long time, you need to be very specific in the way you train.
Just jumping on your bike and riding is no longer enough.
So if you want to increase your FTP, you need to be working harder than your current FTP. Seeing as how FTP is defined as the power you can hold for 1 hr, doing short sets that have high anerobic power demands are simply not going to be the most efficient way of developing your threshold.
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