Am considering dropping swimming and running for a year and doing a 100% focus on road racing after my next race. I’m currently training for a 70.3 in a couple of weeks time, have been putting in consistent 12-14 hour weeks for the last 6 months (and solid base before that), of which around 50% is on the bike, and I’ve been running 30-40miles/week. FTP is 320, which puts me at about 4.2W/kg. FTP has consistently plateaued at about this level since I first got a smart trainer and tested it 2 years ago, but during that time I haven’t really done any more cycling volume than currently. I’m 43.
Any educated guesses as to how much of a boost in FTP I could get from switching over to doing 12-14 hours/week of cycling? Plan is to start with the 2 TR high volume Sweet Spot base plans, supplemented with an extra ride as I can train 7 days/week, and also doing 2 weekend group rides which are typically 3-3.5 hours instead of the 2 hour rides on the plan. I’m not expecting huge gains as I realise that ~6 hours/week of cycling is already a decent amount of volume, but does feel like without the fatigue from running the quality of my bike training could go up significantly as well as the volume. Is a 10% gain over 3 months to get to ~350W realistic?
P.S. fully appreciate there is a lot more to road racing than FTP, I’ve done quite a few bike races across a range of formats - flat races, rolling courses, crit style racing, mountain finishes, TTs - and have a pretty good idea where my strengths and weaknesses lie. I’ll be working on all the other stuff too…
A long time ago I did this. Left tri & bike raced for 2 years. My 20k TT time on a 3 lap course where you started inside the course had 2 U shaped turns in the first 100m to get to the course then 12 90 corners and 2 more U shaped turns to get to the finish line went from mid to low 28s to mid 26s. I have at least 15 races on that course and was never faster then when just bike racing
No powermeter since they had just come out, heck I may not have even known what one was back then.
I’d also say that my handling skills went up a fair bit. I routinely beat dudes on that course who crushed me over 20-40k TT’s by 1-2 minutes
I switched to just cycling about 2 years ago and have see only about a 5% increase in FTP. However, I focused more on VO2 max efforts and sprinting. So, I was definitely a better all around cyclists, my FTP didn’t increase like I thought it would. For me, it seems running and even swimming, although they take time from the bike, contribute to overall fitness.
The other thing to consider is most people can only do so many quality sessions per week. Having recently switched back to tris, I’m doing the same amount of quality bike sessions as when I was just cycling. Now, instead of doing recovery rides or neuro economy rides on “off†days, I swim and run.
huge gains after a season of pure cycling. Had my best IM ever after that with minimal specific bike training for that IM.
Also, bike racing is super fun.
Any idea what kind of power jumps you got in that season, or was it before power meters?
I don’t need any convincing on the fun of bike racing, have done 8 races in the last 6 months while in the middle of tri training, loved all but one of them! (note to self, don’t do a race that finishes with a 5000 foot mountain climb the day after a long haul overnight flight…). Best thing seems to be that you can race pretty much every weekend as without the running my legs are nowhere near as beat up.
Thanks. I was hoping that by focusing on sweet spot training initially I could fit in 5-6 quality sessions each week, as my experience of sweet spot training in the past has been that I have no problem recovering and going again the next day.
I think it’s a mistake to focus on FTP as the benchmark for how much you will improve with a cycling training focus. I’ve been a pure cyclist for many years now after dabbling with duathlon for 3 years, and I recall improving in many areas in addition to FTP. You’ll likely improve your ability to ride above and below threshold, improve your high end “snap†closing gaps quickly, your vo2 max will likely be pushed up, efficiency and handling in a group will improve - just to name a few. My point is, your FTP will go up, but there will be a host of other metrics that will improve that shouldn’t be ignored when you are evaluating changes going to a pure cycling focus.
Thanks, that would translate to a pretty decent power boost at those kind of speeds. Handling is definitely an area for improvement, always thought I was pretty decent (I guess by triathlete standards I am) as I’ve done a fair bit of MTB and grew up cycling on some pretty steep and twisty roads. But have started doing a weekly ride which includes some of the top local road racers, and it’s breath-taking the speed at which they corner when they’re going full gas. I can now just about hold a wheel through a technical section, still got a fair way to go before I can maintain that speed without somebody to follow. And haven’t really had a chance yet to try and transfer that handling onto the TT bike, though the 70.3 is a flat and non-technical course.
That may work. Like I said, I was training to win road races and crits…and I found out really fast that a high FTP won’t win races. Im hoping that I’ll see benefits from just cycling as ericmpro said, despite not much increase in FTP. There is something to be said for having miles in your legs, whether it be running or cycling.
Fully agree, and acknowledged as much in my first post. Will be working on all that other stuff, was just interested in people’s experiences with FTP in particular as firstly it’s a metric that I’ve already got a good handle on, and secondly it’s the metric that should improve most initially as I do a big chunk of base training after a period in which I’ve been racing a lot.
If you are motivated by getting to a better FTP number, then pure running or pure swimming allows you to improve say your 1500m swim time or your 5K open run time where the race reward is more directly proportional to the work you put in. If you go to bike racing, just make sure that you will get motivation out of placements, because FTP is meaningless in the context of a mass start race other than it is an input to help you perform better, but most of the factors (other than a steep hillclimb) are determined by the peloton. In bike racing, you’re reacting to the peloton’s moves. In run and swim racing you’re in 100% control over your outcome. In an FTP test you’re also in control, but that’s not the real world of bike racing. Its similar to a football player who can benchpress a ton in the weight room, but can’t block of catch a ball in the real world. FTP is like gym performance in team sports. It’s only part of the picture.
I am only saying this because I have had many friends leave tri for cycling racing, had great theoretical fitness, but never converted it to results on the tarmac and worse yet, crashed in pack and never got to see the race rewards for their efforts.
Also aside from bike handing skills, your 20 seconds power, 1 min power and 5 min power are probably just as important as FTP as you know anyway. In a run or swim race, you can just stay in diesel FTP equivalent mode.
i have toyed with this idea myself. Tends to be 2 schools of thought on offseason traininng. Some say keep going at all 3, some say better progression can be had when having a large block focusing on one dicipline.
I too love my offseason since that co-incides with cycling road race season here. However i have always still did some running and a few swims to keep up the tri stuff. I understand running in particular canablizes road riding, so keep us all posted on how you come out of these three months, would be interesting to see how you get on and also how quick your run/swim come back.
That’s not very heavy at all, but, with only on the bike the total weekly calories if doing the same exact hours per week might go down. Even for really efficient runners and swimmers, they burn more per hour than the bike. I’ve maintained weight in food heavy winter months and lower bike volume by running some.
So, I’d watch the weight so you don’t gain 25w but gain enough weight the w/kg is the same.
You live in a region with flattish bike racing? Or are they lumpy/hilly?
Given your starting point from triathlon…you’ll temporarily crush folks as you move up through the categories. 4/5 is not very fast, assuming you don’t already have points placing you elsewhere. I’m just a schmuck who maybe rides 4-5 hours a week on the bike and can keep up fine there, and not get dropped with the 3 guys on their hammer rides. You’ll win stuff early on if you don’t do silly things like pull the train instead of resting or playing possum pretending to be tired.
Yet another fine example of you not answering the question and instead going on to espouse about your vast cycling knowledge now that you consider yourself an expert after riding a bike with drop bars for a year.
Am considering dropping swimming and running for a year and doing a 100% focus on road racing after my next race. I’m currently training for a 70.3 in a couple of weeks time, have been putting in consistent 12-14 hour weeks for the last 6 months (and solid base before that), of which around 50% is on the bike, and I’ve been running 30-40miles/week. FTP is 320, which puts me at about 4.2W/kg. FTP has consistently plateaued at about this level since I first got a smart trainer and tested it 2 years ago, but during that time I haven’t really done any more cycling volume than currently. I’m 43.
Any educated guesses as to how much of a boost in FTP I could get from switching over to doing 12-14 hours/week of cycling? Plan is to start with the 2 TR high volume Sweet Spot base plans, supplemented with an extra ride as I can train 7 days/week, and also doing 2 weekend group rides which are typically 3-3.5 hours instead of the 2 hour rides on the plan. I’m not expecting huge gains as I realise that ~6 hours/week of cycling is already a decent amount of volume, but does feel like without the fatigue from running the quality of my bike training could go up significantly as well as the volume. Is a 10% gain over 3 months to get to ~350W realistic?
P.S. fully appreciate there is a lot more to road racing than FTP, I’ve done quite a few bike races across a range of formats - flat races, rolling courses, crit style racing, mountain finishes, TTs - and have a pretty good idea where my strengths and weaknesses lie. I’ll be working on all the other stuff too…
Yes another testimonial claiming 10% improvement when coming from triathlon. Your fitness will improve, but it’s already pretty good based on your weekly hours. When I stopped swimming and only ran a few months every winter, I gained 8% on my FTP the first year. Another 8% the next year when I started following TrainerRoad’s plans, and have had about the same FTP since then, although my power profile has certainly changed as I’ve continued to focus on my limiters, which were are not TT-type efforts, having come from several years of triathlon.
I should add that I was also hurt a lot less, actually never, and that helped a lot, too.
For me, my FTP didn’t change too much…it was more my VO2.
So maybe when doing tris my FTP was 285, and I would do 2x20’ workouts at 270ish (95%) and 5x5’ workouts at 300-304 (105-107%).
When I moved to road racing, my FTP went to about 295…but I would still do a 2x20’ at around 280 (still 95%). But my 5x5’ workouts started going to 325-335 (110-114%).
I would also notice that during long rides, even though my long steady state power saw small increases, my ability to put in hard efforts during long rides went way up.
So if I was riding with a bunch of roadies and we were to ride up a long steady hill I saw small improvements in my ability to hang with the fast guys (or minimize the time gap to the top of the hill). But if we were doing a much more rolling and punchy route, I saw significant improvement in my ability to not only follow surges and attacks, but to instigate surges and attacks myself.
ETA: I should also note that even when I was doing tris, I was also road racing part of the season and riding with roadies as part of my tri training. Some of my biggest riding weeks were during years that I still did triathlon (after my last tri race and preparing for a road race), so it wasn’t that big of a jump for me when I completely ditched the swimming and running.
After reviewing my three years of power data (I switched from running primarily to cycling primarily in the fall of 2016) my conclusion is that you’ll probably find that your FTP will increase, but not by a lot. What will increase more (and what you need to be competitive in road races and crits) is your 30 second and 1 minute power. I’m not a triathlete; I do road races and crits but I have a triathlete-esque power curve.
I did go from 3.6 w/kg in 2016 to 4.2 w/kg in spring of 2017, then 4.4 w/kg by spring of 2018. Training hours were 393, 426, and 426, respectively for those three years.
You’re doing PLENTY of volume on the bike to improve. You need to train smarter. I’ve brought my ftp up 30 watts in the last three months by doing 6-7 hours on zwift per week.
Ill throw out 8 - 10 % improvement as a reasonable target. You’ll have a lot better shot getting there if you make one of your weekend rides long (at least 5 hours, longer better). Empty the tank on this ride. A fun way to get this done is riding an hour or so at sweet spot to your Saturday group ride, stay in the wind as much as possible on the group ride, and try to hold sweet spot for an hour home. Those 5.5 hours are going to do you much more good than 7 hours split across a couple group rides.
All that said, I’d agree with others that ftp and fitness doesn’t usually win bike races, unless it’s a hilly course or a stage race w tt. I know cat 2 guys that have terrible ftp’s, but they win flat races because they have an awesome sprint and know how to race their bike. So frustrating sometimes, but that’s bike racing.