I struggle with keeping a high elbow on the recovery phase, I am being told that sometimes during recovery I swing my arms around the outside of my body instead of keeping a high elbow recovery, I can feel myself doing it more when I am tired, but one issue of this is that my biceps get tired or sore during swimming, I have been told to role my body more to help achieve a high elbow, I also do the trail drill, being left handed I feel that I can do it better on that side than my right side. The high elbow on my right side feels so unnatural. I have learned front crawl as an adult for triathlons and I feel that it is hard to get my arms in certain positions, any tips on how to keep a high elbow on the recovery phase?
high elbow=good rotation and timing. Swinging your arms wide is usually a by-product of not enough rotation or “role (roll)”.
If you are able to extend your hand out with your shoulders reaching forward, then you initiate the pull, get the elbow up and naturally you will pull straight and not swing out.
+1 to not enough roll. One drill that I use and teach is the “shark fin drill” some people call it the “chicken wing drill”. In order to do it correctly you have to do an exargerated roll onto your side. With your recovery hand touch your armpit before finishing the recovery. I will often pause at the armpit for a second or two just to get the feel of control while rolled onto myside.
That said I have heard people argue that in open water a high elbow is not that critical because of choppy water and other people near you. A wider recovery and less roll can help you feel more stable if the water is being churned up or there are waves. I can see this if the water is real bad or at the begining of the swim but once into a rhythm you want to be as efficient as possible to safe energy. Good stroke mechanics in the pool will at least help with swim fitness and efficiency when you hit the open water.
High elbow recovery is not fundamental to fast swimming. High elbow or early vertical forearm on the pull…sure. High elbow on the recovery really serves no purposes, other than contributing to some shoulder injuries. Among successful swimmers there are high elbows, low elbows, wide elbows and narrow elbows. All of those groups are then able to display the proper early vertical forearm. Having a high elbow on the recovery in no way contributes to having one when you really need it.
Finger tip drag drill is on my “Top 3 Useless Swimming Drills” list.
Please note I am not saying don’t strive for balance or proper rotation, simply that high elbow recovery has nothing to do with those things.
One of the benefits of the high elbow is body alignment and limiting the lateral movement of the body from side to side, caused by momentum generated by swinging arms. Sure Janet Evan’s was very successful with a crappy recovery, but the Phelps, Thorpe, Lochte stroke is the fastest, most economical and high elbowed.
High elbow recovery is not fundamental to fast swimming. High elbow or early vertical forearm on the pull…sure. High elbow on the recovery really serves no purposes, other than contributing to some shoulder injuries. Among successful swimmers there are high elbows, low elbows, wide elbows and narrow elbows. All of those groups are then able to display the proper early vertical forearm. Having a high elbow on the recovery in no way contributes to having one when you really need it.
Finger tip drag drill is on my “Top 3 Useless Swimming Drills” list.
Please note I am not saying don’t strive for balance or proper rotation, simply that high elbow recovery has nothing to do with those things.
My biceps hurts when swimming, I am being told that this is because I am swinging my arms out wide on recovery, which is basically like holding
my arms out straight for long periods of time, hence the sore arms
One of the benefits of the high elbow is body alignment and limiting the lateral movement of the body from side to side, caused by momentum generated by swinging arms. Sure Janet Evan’s was very successful with a crappy recovery, but the Phelps, Thorpe, Lochte stroke is the fastest, most economical and high elbowed.
Body alignment is great. You just don’t need a high elbow to get it.
Not sure how not bending you arms would make them sore, particularly the biceps.
High elbow is an effect of a properly open shoulder on the recovery part of the stroke- you should be showing the world your armpit. What your arm is doing once you have that open armpit doesn’t matter as long as you’re getting hands into the proper place on entry/catch initiation. (I was playing around a bit the other day, and it also seems like it’s also easier to get good power on the start of the catch when you are startng it from a more open armpit.)
Shoulder flexibility is as important as strength in terms of doing it right.
I like that F.J. High elbow recovery as a (possible) output of effective input. Not the other way around.
One of the benefits of the high elbow is body alignment and limiting the lateral movement of the body from side to side, caused by momentum generated by swinging arms. Sure Janet Evan’s was very successful with a crappy recovery, but the Phelps, Thorpe, Lochte stroke is the fastest, most economical and high elbowed.
Unorthodox recovery for a swimmer of her caliber, I will give you that, but she is not the only one. In isolation maybe “crappy recovery” is fair too. Seems plausible to me that her recovery may have allowed, possibly even facilitated, other components of her stroke that led to her success as a swimmer. I don’t have anywhere near your swimming credentials but I’m not ready to accept a high-elbow recovery as a near absolute requirement of competent or fast swimming.
Long after all of her swim records are broken, Janet Evans will continue to be brought up to counter or buttress every single technique-related swim argument, and that will be her legacy.
I can actually frequently pick out swimmers who didn’t grow up as fish because of that- they’re trying to go high elbow on recovery, but the armpit is way closed and it looks all awkward and like they lead from about the wrist on recovery instead of leading from the shoulder.
High elbow recovery is not fundamental to fast swimming. High elbow or early vertical forearm on the pull…sure. High elbow on the recovery really serves no purposes, other than contributing to some shoulder injuries. Among successful swimmers there are high elbows, low elbows, wide elbows and narrow elbows. All of those groups are then able to display the proper early vertical forearm. Having a high elbow on the recovery in no way contributes to having one when you really need it.
Finger tip drag drill is on my “Top 3 Useless Swimming Drills” list.
Please note I am not saying don’t strive for balance or proper rotation, simply that high elbow recovery has nothing to do with those things.
My biceps hurts when swimming, I am being told that this is because I am swinging my arms out wide on recovery, which is basically like holding
my arms out straight for long periods of time, hence the sore arms
Mmmmm…no. If that were the case, then it would be your triceps and deltoids that are sore. Biceps cause the arm to bend when they contract. If you are holding your arms out straight the biceps have to be relaxed.
What I would suspect is that you do something funky under the water against resistance when you do a straight arm recovery that is causing the soreness. You enter with a straight arm, then bend to get into position against resistance, whala, sore arms.
But I’m with Dave on this. As long as your arms aren’t so lo that they are dragging through the water on recovery, there is no “one best path” for the arms on recovery. There are motions that will help facilitate body roll and extension, but even those are achievable from almost any recovery method.
About the only place I can think of where high elbows would matter is if you are in heavy chop, where a lower recovery keeps hitting wavelets.
John
Long after all of her swim records are broken, Janet Evans will continue to be brought up to counter or buttress every single technique-related swim argument, and that will be her legacy.
That, and she can drink anyone 3 times her weight under the table.
Allegedly. >:-)
High elbow recovery is not fundamental to fast swimming. High elbow on the recovery really serves no purposes, other than contributing to some shoulder injuries.
Finger tip drag drill is on my “Top 3 Useless Swimming Drills” list.
I think you are wrong…
Wich injuries are you talking about?
Shoulder girdle injuries are avoided when narrowing the recovery (high elbows) because your shoulder supports less forces.
It is possible you perform a bad high elbow recovery and then you’d suffer an injury but the problem is not the recovery but your technique.
High elbows is the correct way… Not easy in some wetsuits but in a pool is a must
Can you define closed or open shoulder / armpit?
I am going to make a speculative claim about WHY the variation in bent arm. First a couple of points:
- there many bent arms out there in elite swim land,
- there is a non-negligible amount of straight or not-so-bent arms out there,
- Degree of arm-bend is most definitely a continuum, from bent-a-lot to bent-not
I submit that the degree of elbow bend on the recovery has more to do with an individuals arm length, arm mass, rate of turnover, and hence, centrifugal force that results from the interaction of those factors. If the swimmers are relaxed on the recovery (which is a good thing), the arm will largely select its level of bend.
One might find it effective to augment their natural bend to obtain a particular “angle of entry” into the water, but I think this too may depend as much on angular velocity and amount of rotation that you get.
In short I think that much, much time is wasted on this notion. I agree with FJ that this is mostly an effect not a cause. I am also in agreement with Dave, seeking a bent elbow can place an enormous amount of stress on the tendon/muscle in the front side of the shoulder if the elbow bend exceeds that which should be dictated by the amount of body rotation.
So, do you have a slow stroke or a fast one? If it’s slow, then you either 1) blow my theory out, or 2) need to relax your arms during the recovery.
Regards,
r.b.
I wouldn’t say it has NOTHING to do with them.
This is probably a swimmer who can’t see the forest (good rotation) for the trees (figertip drag).
Happens often, as you know, the swimmer gets hung up on how to do this exact drill and loses sight of the eventual end game. Or the communication between the coach and swimmer wasn’t that clear.
I don’t usually use fingertip drag to force a person to rotate, not the way I approach it, but you can certainly do it that way and plenty of people do.
+1
IMO, it doesn’t matter. The most important thing that can happen is that when an arm is out of the water, it is relaxed. Arm out of the water means rest. Too much concentration on what that arm is doing out there can possibly lead to tension, - which is not good.
relax