It’s been a few years now, so I don’t remember the formula I used for calorie consumption during the IM bike leg. A friend is training for IMFL and in need of some guidance.
She’s roughly 125lbs and will ride somewhere near 18mph for the bike leg. She’ll be using Accelerade as her primary protein source, along with gels and Gatorade.
How many total calories should she be consuming per hour, and is the 4:1 ratio of carbs:protein still considered optimal?
Thanks-
why would someone eat protein in a race? Carbs is the only source of energy you need on race day, the rest complicated the equation and chance to get sick.
keep it simple stupid… she should try in training for 200-300cal/h
I agree with Jonnyo, 2-300 cals per hour, NO protein until after the race. Running a marathon after 6 hours of accelerade is a feat few can be comfortable with. And I even like the stuff and use it on a lot of my rides.
Jodi
Hmm. I can’t remember where I came up with the protein element of my IM nutrition plan (I used SlimFast Ultra, had no problems in training or on raceday), maybe Gordo’s site or some random internet source. I’ve never tried Accelerade, personally, but I’ve used some form of protein in every IM or ultramarathon I’ve competed in, and never suffered gastric issues or for lack of energy. I suppose the protein was inconsequential - no harm, no foul, in my case.
Some can handle it, some can’t. The only way to know is a long brick I guess. When I use accelerade and try to run off the bike I end up looking about 7 months pregnant by the end of the run and I’m doubled over. But as always, you have to do what works for you in training. She may need more or less calories too. practice, practice, practice…
Jodi
You need protein in an IM. Go to hammernutrition.com. They have a bizillion articles on in race nutrition and nutrition is their bread and butter. Here is an excerpt from one article on why you need protein. You’ll also see the recommendation that you take in 30% of the calories you burn. Frankly, Hammer makes less money by their recommendations (Hammer says people primarily overeat on endurance exercises). Protein for fuel
When exercise goes beyond 90-120 minutes, you need to incorporate some protein into the fuel mix. After about 90 minutes, and continuing until you stop your activity, about 5-15% of your caloric utilization comes from protein. This process, called gluconeogenesis, is unavoidable, and if you don’t supply the needed protein in your fuel, your body will literally scavenge it from your own muscle tissue. This is called catabolism (muscle breakdown), known informally, but quite accurately, as “protein cannibalization.” It can cause premature muscle fatigue (due to excess ammonia production from the protein breakdown process) as well as muscle depletion and post-exercise soreness. Protein cannibalization also compromises your immune system, leading to increased risk for colds, flu, and other diseases.
For exercise and competition that extends about two hours or more, your primary fuel should incorporate protein in a ratio of about 8:1 (by weight) carbs to protein. Both Sustained Energy and Perpetuem meet this requirement; they are your best choices for fueling any endurance activity.
well, let say you do not ‘‘NEED’’ protein to do a ironman. Actually, most of the athlete at the front of the race dont take any as it complicated the equation and digestion. Most of us are on carbs 100%.
I still havent seen any true positive effect of protein in a race other than speed up recovery after… but i do not care about recovery on race day… only to keep the digestion process as simple as you can and your body needs on race day is CHO… you have plenty of fat and protein in you to finish the race without consuming any.
And some of hammer nutrition claim arent 100% accurate…
so, up to everyone to figure what work best for them, personaly, i suggest to KISS(keep it simple stupid…) protein will just add another stress to your digestive system on race day…
“And some of hammer nutrition claim arent 100% accurate…”
Do you have a link with competing evidence to the Hammer claim that your body uses protein as a source of energy on race day?
I think the correct answer is if your stomach can handle the protein, take it. If it can’t, don’t. In other words, like you said, protein does not provide enough of a benefit to force it down and end up in a port a jon. But if it doesn’t bother you, take it.
I have a nutrition calculator in excel on my website (see link below…go to the “training plans” page and look for the link at the bottom). It originally came from an article I read on tri-talk (I think??). I imported the formulas into excel. I use it for planning my HIM and IM race nutrition. Hope this helps…happy training.
I guideline I use for the entire IM. It has worked for me. I also use Accel gels, 12 in a bottle with some water to make them fluid.
These numbers work for me.
You need to replace 30% of what you use.
What you will use: 5 cal per pound per hour.
My IMCDA race:
270 lbs x 5 cal x 13.5 hours = 18225 cals x .3 = 5467 cals
easier to take cals on the bike
125 lbs x 5 cal x 12 hours = 7500 cals x .3 = 2250 cals for the race with a 12 hour time (guess)
maybe try to get 225/ hour on the bike.
I did do a lot of testing on long bikes and mutliple long bricks (140k-20k). The long bricks were for mental training and nutrition and did there job, but I was really careful to not get hurt. With the nutrition down and good training it I was able to cut my time by 2.5 hours, so the brick work was worth it.
Or you can use the official Tri-Talk calculator:
http://tri-talk.com/TriTalkNC/TriTalkNC.htm
It pegs me at about 300 calories an hour, which I think is right on.
Jonnyo is right here guys…KISS…
CHO and SALT…period.
Why risk bloating, gas, calories not getting absorbed, protein spoiling in the heat and just about everything else???
+++++++++++++
Remember don’t mix sugars…
Also have her look at carbo pro or infinite…great products.
no, you give the wrong advice. It s important to mix sugar, maltodextrin been the main sugar, it s good to add a bit of sucrose and glucose…that help improve and maximize absoption…
infinit is a good product and off couse, they mix a few other sugar with mainly matlodextrin to get the best results,
same with carbo pro, to take carbo pro with nothing isnt as good as mixing it with gatorade for exemple…
and electrolythe…
Hammer is good, they sure do throw their nutritional advice around liberally.
And I’ll admit there is a growing body of evidence towards using protein during endurance exercise.
That said: JohnnyO is right Hammer has been proven less than accurate a number of times - do your OWN research, they are also in court right now defending a suit because they got some steroid pre-cursors mixed in with their endurolytes.
AND IMO Hammer needlessly WAY over complicates the whole issue of nutrition - they make a pill for everything you think you need. Not bad stuff, I have just evolved and found better things for ME and MY body (as have others)
“And some of hammer nutrition claim arent 100% accurate…”
Do you have a link with competing evidence to the Hammer claim that your body uses protein as a source of energy on race day?
I think the correct answer is if your stomach can handle the protein, take it. If it can’t, don’t. In other words, like you said, protein does not provide enough of a benefit to force it down and end up in a port a jon. But if it doesn’t bother you, take it.
Just to show everyone is a little different, I have to have protein in my nutrition during training and racing. Took me years to figure this out. It seems to help my stomach empty and prevents upset stomach. Also prevents multiple bathroom breaks. I use Accel Gel and Perpetuem during races and use Accelerade during training when I don’t mind carrying my own drink. Really effective for me. Not one stomach issue at IMCdA this year.
4:1 is for recovery is my understanding.
For caloric intake, I weighed 128 on race day. Several years ago I used the 250 calorie base number that is widely suggested then went from there. I tend to do closer to 200 on the bike and 100 - 150 on the run depending on effort, weather and mood. Again, took me a while to figure this out. I stay very flexible on race day and will stop taking in nutrition at the first sign of upset stomach. My IMCdA calorie intake on the bike was just under 200/hr and I felt great going into the marathon.
My recovery seems to go better protein too.
I was getting into the Hammer stuff and would use their joint formula supplement and daily but you have to take so damn many of them that I felt like it got ridiculous. Plus they have that lawsuit against them for creating a positive drug test in an athlete (forgot which one).
Experiment experiment experiment and KISS.