Over the past few months I’ve taken on more proper running form and started forefoot running. I’ve gotten great results with my running, but recently my ankles have been getting a bit sore, I used to be an over pronator and wore a asics stability shoe. Currently I’m on a neutral newton shoe and loving it, however I occasionally get this ankle soreness. It’s not a sharp pain, more of a dull ache. Has anyone had experience with this? Does it slowly go away as your foot strength improves ?
Pretty common issue -
Here is a guy I saw just a few days ago (just a snap shot of his video), “true” forefoot runner, filmed slo mo barefoot, in Mizuno “stability” shoes, Newtons, with and without orthotics someone put him in. Yes, he is battling PT tendonitis trying to get ready for Boston this year.
He actually did “best” in his Newtons as far as how he runs since the forefoot lugs gave him more stability than I thought. The problem with “forefoot running” is that it is NOT proper form like you mentioned. We all “forefoot run” at speed (a little different for all, but about 15 mph for me, faster for others, full on sprint for others still). Others never do, even at 4:30 min/mile pace (Bekele the best world class marathoner example usually cited). He was running at ranged from 6.5-10 mph here. The issue? The PT tendon firing longer and more eccentric trying to decelerate “pronation”. This is one of the issues more forefoot adapters don’t often realize, that you have MORE pronation issues than running in nasty, bulky motion control shoes since you still must push off the ground somehow and that rate of change now has a much larger force vector. Can you “adapt”? Of course, if that is what you wish.
To your question - does it “go away”? Sure, eventually - because he had to stop running completely for a few months … then back at it, then reinjured, then seeing multiple medical specialists, then … your foot doesn’t really strengthen like you are probably thinking and more info is needed on what ankle issue you are having (joint, tendon, etc.).
i maybe experiencing the same kind of pain. my foot strike is similar to the video screen shot, though maybe not quite as pronounced.
after a long run, if i’m standing still and deliberately roll my foot onto the outside edge, i feel pain below and behind my ankle bone. little or no pain if i roll it to the inside edge. @isignay, same for you?
i’d welcome input on how to mitigate or correct?
Totally agree on the forefoot running notes!!
Yeah the ache is in my left ankle… below the bone slightly towards the front/middle @415brian, what I’ve noticed is that my lower back tightness, knee pain has gone away since the forefoot running started, however recently after a longer run, my ankle pain has been creeping up, it’s very frustrating because I feel that I’ve traded one pain / soreness for another area…I had my run analyzed at road runner sports on the video and I noticed that my left ankle does NOT pronate as much as my right, so I’m not sure why my left ankle is the one giving me problems and it’s not my right… I’m wondering if it’s also the shoes too. I ran in an asics neutral shoe and had a great run, I’ve always heard great things about newtons so I thought I’d give them a shot, but I may be switching back to the asics soon if this ankle pain keeps up to see if that helps in any way.
My story is just like yours…heel striker that in the past few months went from Asics stability shoes to Newton neutral trainers. Can’t say I have the same pain you do though. Maybe I took the transition more gradually than you did. In fact I am still not wearing the Newtons over about 66% of the time. But I have been 100% consistent in forefoot striking.
And to rroof. Holy cow what a picture!! Seems like a pic we should all have taken of ourselves.
i maybe experiencing the same kind of pain. my foot strike is similar to the video screen shot, though maybe not quite as pronounced.
after a long run, if i’m standing still and deliberately roll my foot onto the outside edge, i feel pain below and behind my ankle bone. little or no pain if i roll it to the inside edge. @isignay, same for you?
i’d welcome input on how to mitigate or correct?
Your description is again pretty classic posterior tibial tendonitis. PT tendon dysfunction and long term sequelae are more common in very flat foot/heavy overpronating types, but more acute PT tendon issues tend to be more common in forced forefoot or higher arched runners. Same increased incidence in those newer to jumping sports (volleyboll, basketball, etc.) for the same reasons.
Correct is simply rest 
Since that isn’t likely going to happen (nor was it for the gentleman above, hell bent on going to Boston and a well educated young college professor). Mitigate would be relative rest - that is, decreased mileage, no hill running, no speed work, possibly run taped, etc. If no improvement, seek a hands on exam with imaging to rule out more extensive pathology of the tendon or other issues.
There is no “proper” running form that I have read about. There is your running form and if that is what is more efficient, then that is the proper form for you.
I would say that the ankle issues can be helped by rest, mine were, and by strengthening the weakness in the hip that may be contributing to the pronation that is causing the PT tendon discomfort.
I only say this because that is what worked for me 100%. I had the analysis done at UVA with their guy at the SPEED Endurance Clinic back in the fall. I rehabbed the weaknesses throughout this recent transition period and have already managed to shave off :45 of my runs JUST with that. That is low volume running, tri training started in mid January (for my first time ever) and that seems to be helping as well.
I run on my mid/forefoot naturally but it took healing up the injury and rehabbing to get the right side as strong as the left in order to really start working on speed and endurance again.
Just my 2 cents.
Andrew, I really have difficulty deciphering your writing.
Andrew, I really have difficulty deciphering your writing.
I’m not Andrew, just like his quote. If you don’t know who Dr. Coggan is … well, keep reading. It will come together.
ha, i was confused about that, too!
Hey guys. I’ve been a lurker for a couple of years now. This is my first post. I look forward to good convo in the future.
I’m a big believer in the natural running form movement. I believe it’s here to stay. The benefits are hard to argue. IMHO the ankle soreness is due to the fact that you are engaging muscles and tendons that weren’t before being utilized. Many runners switching from a heel to toe running gait for a more natural running gait (forefoot, yes it’s more natural, kick your shoes off and go run around barefoot, you’ll naturally land on your midfoot) will experience soreness. Just like those people who return to the weight room after some time off. The following days/weeks they experience some sort of soreness and maybe even pain of some sort. That’s what happens when we start engaging muscles/tendons that haven’t been utilized. Once those muscles have been restrengthened you’ll be running pain free without any consequences from heel striking. Your ankle is a pivotal joint so when you apply force to it there is a greater degree of pronation. The way our feet our structured our midfoot is designed to take on more shock with less pronation. Less pronation= less chance of injury. I’m still a believer in running shoes. We are running around on unnatural surfaces therefore we need to protect our feet. But we should still run how our body is intended to move biomechanicly. Just my 2cents.
I’m naturally a heel striker, but have developed some knee problems from that, so I’m trying to run more on my forefeet. Now my ankles are sore a lot. Doing a lot of stability work seemed to help the knee issues some for what it’s worth.
I’m probably a more ‘special’ case as my knees and ankles are really really flexible (used to be able to kick sub 1:00 for 100scy for fly and free with a kickboard).
Pretty common issue -
Here is a guy I saw just a few days ago (just a snap shot of his video), “true” forefoot runner, filmed slo mo barefoot, in Mizuno “stability” shoes, Newtons, with and without orthotics someone put him in. Yes, he is battling PT tendonitis trying to get ready for Boston this year.
He actually did “best” in his Newtons as far as how he runs since the forefoot lugs gave him more stability than I thought. The problem with “forefoot running” is that it is NOT proper form like you mentioned. We all “forefoot run” at speed (a little different for all, but about 15 mph for me, faster for others, full on sprint for others still). Others never do, even at 4:30 min/mile pace (Bekele the best world class marathoner example usually cited). He was running at ranged from 6.5-10 mph here. The issue? The PT tendon firing longer and more eccentric trying to decelerate “pronation”. This is one of the issues more forefoot adapters don’t often realize, that you have MORE pronation issues than running in nasty, bulky motion control shoes since you still must push off the ground somehow and that rate of change now has a much larger force vector. Can you “adapt”? Of course, if that is what you wish.
To your question - does it “go away”? Sure, eventually - because he had to stop running completely for a few months … then back at it, then reinjured, then seeing multiple medical specialists, then … your foot doesn’t really strengthen like you are probably thinking and more info is needed on what ankle issue you are having (joint, tendon, etc.).
this post deserves its own thread.
I’m still not clear on where your soreness is . . .i see all kinds of off the hip diagnosis by replies, but where is the pain exactly? Posterier? Mid? Anterior? location in relation to major bones/tendons? What makes the pain worse (stairs up or down) what alleviates? etc
It’s right underneath my ankle bone/joint, slightly towards the front of the joint, maybe 1 cm. below and in front of the middle of the joint. When I plant my forefoot and begin to push off it will ache after about 8 + miles. Usually the planting of the foot hurts more than the pushing off. What alleviates it? I’d say walking around normally the next day, the more I move it around, the less I feel it, and if I take a week off of running I don’t feel it at all, until I try to do another 8+ miles… I’m not very anatomy savvy, so i’m sorry if I can’t describe the position of the pain more concisely.
This is fascinating. My right foot strikes the ground at a strange angle as well. As a result, my right ankle bone looks about twice as big as my left ankle bone.
So I see some people saying rest, but nobody discussing correcting of form here. Is that because there is no correction? I’d love to see some of those with deep running knowledge weigh in on this.
I purposely did NOT discuss “correcting” running form (at least in my patient) because there is no way to do that via an internet forum. It is difficult enough with a good clinical history, physical exam, x-ray/MRI, video/software analysis, etc. if the athlete is already injured.
OK, I wasn’t trying to force you into an answer. I’m more just curious about what the process would be I suppose. Is it typically a shoe based phenomenon, is it biomechanical, width of gait, etc… Is it better to move to a more heel-based strike?
Lots of questions, I’m just uninformed on this subject. Thanks!
No problem. All of the above come into play, in addition to one’s flexibily, injury history, age, how long running, type of running/goals, etc. No, moving to a “heel based” strike isn’t at all commonly recommended