…on the slowtwitch home page.
Ok, where the hell are they? where are the Mike Plumbs of the World? you have got to be kidding me. This smacks of ITU bullshit. 1) how did you get the agreement. 2) what does this all mean.
My thoughts, ITU is a corrupt organization. This proves it. Les M. signed the agreement. He HAD to of known about it. As for Skip, Dan are you telling us he DIDN’T know? COME ON. he had to know.
It is a birds eye view into the soul of who we have running our governing body and the international governing body of our sport.
What would anyone think who has a contract or agreement with ITU or USAT think about this? i think they are wondering who in the hell they are partnering with.
Where is WTC in all of this? why the silence? They should sue each party for slander.
Jeff.
Regardless of the outcome of all of this, it would be cool to see a couple of things with the 70.3 series: Points ranking based on best 4 races A rotating world Championship with host cities bidding on it year to year Qualifying slots for pros at some of these events to go to Kona. This whole thing about pros having to do an Ironman to qualify for Kona is bogus. You have guys like Lessing shedding their legs 7 weeks out from the show to get it, while people get in on the lottery. I want to see the pros at their best in Kona, and not fried out from a qual race 7 weeks out. For the pros, national teams being fielded at the 70.3 World’s with a team championship. I know from participating that at the World Military Games it was a huge deal when our gals won a silver. This would really add a nice element and make the whole thing more of a real world’s.
Dev
wow, that sounds like quite a circuit…I wonder if the Ironman WC 70.3’s will have Pro qualifying slots? has WTC said? also, i want to take back my slander comment. They shouldn’t do that. the federations from around the world should unite against Les, that is for sure. And Skip should lead the charge. If he doesn’t , the USAT board should vote him out.
There are no excuses for this.
Also, 2 of peter reid’s win come after winning Canada in the same year, why can’t simon do it?
“where are the Mike Plumbs of the World?”
slumming around, often on this forum.
“how did you get the agreement.”
hey, i’m an investigative journalist. it’s what i do. i eat, sleep and crap this stuff.
“As for Skip, Dan are you telling us he DIDN’T know?”
sure. that’s what i’m saying. there was nobody there to tell him. nobody with institutional memory. there was no one at USAT who remembered that USAT was even part of the deal. there was no way for skip to know that USAT was a party to it. so, he asked the ITU about what he assumed was only a two party deal (ITU & WTC). the ITU apparently told him the whole thing was “verbal.”
personally, i think skip, and USAT, got gamed by les, who was the only one who remembered what this deal was all about (except mark sisson remembered it, and was quite shocked with the ITU came out with this resolution. sisson is the one who brokered all the deal points, along with the WTC’s alvin chriss). but sisson isn’t part of the ITU anymore, to keep the ITU from going forward with such a bonehead move. so, the ITU let skip walk the plank.
this thing never goes to CAS, never goes to court, because WTC will send the agreement around to the NGBs in the countries WTC needs a sanction, and such sanction will be granted. if a sanction isn’t granted, WTC will take this to CAS, and the very fact that this resolution was put forward and passed will be evidence that a predisposition against granting a sanction is in place. USAT just made it HARDER for member NGBs to deny a sanction to WTC.
I sure wish these groups would STOP playing the EGO games and just do what is right for the 99% of the racers who pay 99% of the bills, and that is us AG’s!!
Dave
Dan - I was on the USAT board when this was signed by USAT, WTC and the ITU. David Yates, the WTC presedent at that time was a bulldog in getting this done.
The Ironman World Championship name was trademarked 10 years before ITU was formed.
Just before this document was signed a group of North American RD’s had formed the World Triathlon Tour - Graham, Micheal Braunstein, Michael Epstein, Jan, Jack, WTC and myself. We were blown out of the water by the ITU with threats They would contact our sponsors and make sure that USAT would not sanction our events. Same type of thing that was just done in Japan.
Alvin Chris - that is a name I have not heard in a long time. Alvin was a very smart man -he died to young - he was the voice of Mark Allen for awhile if I remember correctly.
Skip was thrown under the bus - again - by people around him. The current USAT board and staff has no one who knows the history of the sport.
I remember David Backer, then president of USAT reminding us at every BOD meeting. “Please look over the min. from the last two years and remember the resolutions that we have passed. Are we doing these things or have them been forgotten as we move on to other matters.”
Seems that the board should have required all prospective Executive Director candidates to take a history lesson in Triathlon and pass a test to make sure that they know our past - the good the bad and the ugly.
Z
uh…have you read the article dan posted??? It is plainly obvious that one of the groups has screwed over the AG’s. here is a hint. the initials begin with ITU and one other hint, USAT. This thing stinks. Add it to the list of bad faith business by another olympic governing body. We read about this kind of S__T all the time. ITU/USAT fit right in with the IOC and their type of politics.
Dan, “I didn’t know about the agreement isn’t a defense.” Skip is the ED, or ceo or whatever. He now has some answering to do to his members. He also should probably call WTC and make amends quick, before it gets even more embarrassing.
It is also clear that WTC acted with in good faith of an agreement. There are a lot of people on these forums that should take note.
Qualifying slots for pros at some of these events to go to Kona. This whole thing about pros having to do an Ironman to qualify for Kona is bogus. You have guys like Lessing shedding their legs 7 weeks out from the show to get it, while people get in on the lottery. I want to see the pros at their best in Kona, and not fried out from a qual race 7 weeks out.
From press release:
A professional prize purse of $100,000 will be offered and top professional and age group athletes will qualify for the 2007 Ford Ironman World Championship that will take place in Kailua-Kona, Hawaii on October 13
thanks tom for the post! well Dan, Tom knew about the agreement! Tom also just gave more ammo to the way that ITU conducts their business. It is time that the national federations of this world rise up and take out Les.
SInce Les KNEW about the agreement, allowing these press releases to go out it is an obvious attempt to damage WTC.
Shameful.
Jeff, I am not going to take sides. I am not saying who is right or wrong.
But, are these people not adults? Do they not care about the folks who pay their salaries? If they all really cared about the sport, they would see working together is better than this finger pointing. Am I holding my breath that it will happen. NOPE. But, sure does not hurt to support adult behaviors!!
I sure love to see Dan’s writings and facts. Too bad he had to quit the USAT board but when I read his reason why, boy can I relate!!
Dave
Dave, what did the WTC do? Create races that sell out in 5 hours? Create another series for us all to race? offer an entire new set of races for pros to do, with decent prize money? What did they do?
sides? it isn’t about sides. Our NGB and our International Governing body are clearly acting in bad faith. There is NO dispute on that. None. They are the ones who are supposed to govern the sport. They have failed!
Finger Pointing? uh…correct me if i am wrong, but WTC hasn’t released a press release?? have they? if they have i haven’t seen it on Slowtwitch.
what i have seen is Releases from USAT and ITU that have cast doubt on their intentions and integrity, and this is just from their OWN RELEASES.
example. GIlberts quote from his first release:
However, Gilbert did not close the door on a relationship with WTC down the line.
“If they want to come back to the table and work with us, we would love to help them establish a global rulebook that would make everyone happy.”
WHAT? WHAT? So he goes to the ITU and gets Les worked up to draft a resolution???
It is clear that Skip had no intention of ever trying to work with WTC.
so WTC wants a global rule book and drug testing…am i missing something here? are they nuts for wanting standardized rules and drug testing???
I guess so.
I do agree with you 100%.
But, as I get older, I am starting to learn that fighting, finger pointing, and name calling, in most cases, does not get much done. This is coming from a person who drove a recall against the entire board of directors at the HOA I live in. I am known as Hitler to a lot of members now. And all I was fighting for was letting the majority of the members speak and be listened to. Thats all I was trying to offer here, but, I know by who has set what, where the real issues are.
Again, I agree with you, just would like to see folks try to work this out.
Dave
It would seem to me that the ball is in USAT’s court. Skip has been shown to be a horrible politician, who is incapable of navigating the political waters. In his first 6 months, he has managed to lose his biggest client (i am not sure if that is true, but certainly the most prestigious, famous) one which has traditionally supported USAT in the past, he has struck a deal with LES ( known to be corrupt), only to find out that he has been screwed over (if dan is correct, i have my reservations). Now, due to his poor decisions, i am sure he is now meeting with his board to see how much Legal hot water they are in.
This isn’t a start, it is a train wreck.
Time for a MAN to step up and say, i screwed up, this deal was in place, i will honor it and work with WTC. THAT, would be a leader. It would show that he does honor the commitments of USAT and show that he knows a little about the history of our sport.
I am sure in WTC’s eyes, his credibility is gone, and they probably never trusted Les. SO what can they do? it has to come from USAT.
My bet, is that he will never do that. He doesn’t have what it takes. He will say that he knew of the agreement , but mean old money hungry WTC didn’t do XYZ and therefore USAT doesnt “feel” as if they have to honor it. You watch. Just like his previous press releases, he can’t rely on facts, he has to go to the language of “profit” , Money Hungry, ETC…
This will be the test of leadership. There hasn’t been any on the federations side in quite a while.
Would sure love to have him prove us wrong. He seemed pretty sure of himself with his article in the last USAT news letter.
Dave
my guess is he is now seriously rethinking his position in the world. IF dan is right, IF is in caps, then Les deceived not only Skip, but the entire ITU congress as well. If that is true, it would seem skip has a hell of a shot at uniting against les and doing some real good. Skip could gain the respect of the ITU congress (as of this turn of events, they are all laughing at him now as a lowly pawn in the World of Les), he scores points with WTC (which he now needs in his home turf, as he is the most hated man in the US tri-world), and he emerges to truly unite our sport.
This is his shot. He actually could do well here. I hope someone, NOT HIS BOARD (hell where were they in advising him, Davidson has been around a long time, he SHOULD have known) is advising him.
I am not sure how he can make this work though, it is a pretty tough sell to the other NGB’s, one minute you are bashing WTC, the next "hey, les sold me a bill of goods and i believed him! " defense. At this point USAT’s stature in the national heirarchy of federations has been damaged.
Look at the bright side, probably no worse then President Bush has done!
Yea, they have had zero impact on me so far.
Dave
My values in life has always been to take 100% ownerships for any issues that I have only been 1% at fault on. So few people have honor now a days to stand up and say I made a mistake, I learned, and lets try to do what is right. You hear this all the time on TV, and history proves that the folks who tried to lie or be sneaky, get what is coming to them. The folks who stood up, said I made a mistake, and go forward trying to fix issues, usually end up in better shape.
So, anyone of these three groups can have the leader stand up and take charge in a positive way. Shall be interesting to see the true character of all three men, and organizations!! The second person does not get the credit, since the first is the true leader who has the guts!
Dave
There is one Major exception. One organization is NOT an NGB. the other two are NGB’s (USAT and ITU). Therefore they have major power granted by law. As such they should be accountable to a MUCH higher standard. They are accountable to the people who make up each organization.
In WTC’s case, if they make a mis-step, no one will go to their events. The system (free enterprise) will take care of itself. WTC is only an events organizer. That is it. nothing more. If no one goes to an Ironman, WTC will not exist. They have NO monopoly on anything. They do not force people to attend. It is pure supply and demand and their product.
I am not sure what the WTC can do in this case? go to CAS? how exactly are they to “stand up”?
from WTC: “Ok Les and Skip, you guys have no integrity, lack any spine and your business ethics are deplorable. Stop that! Grant us sanctions, drug test our events and standardize our rules!”
Slowman,
Congrats on a very interesting article. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. IF this is all fact (very hard at the moment to see what is actually fact or fiction) and I will take it on face value that it is, this is another indication of the poor administration of the sport of triathlon. Couple this with the USAT/World Championships fiasco it appears that both USAT and the ITU are being run by a bunch of fools with way too much power. Unfortunately their cosy relationship may have turned sour now. The fact that USAT and the ITU pushed this decision onto the NF’s is another example of how USAT seem to want to make their problems an issue for every other country.
Instead of dealing with his problems, Skip Gilbert seems to have a desire to include every other country in USAT’s issues. I do know one thing, many NF’s wouldn’t survive if they lost half their membership base to the Global Tri Group but was this taken into account, “no”, as that doesn’t affect USAT, their coffers are full with backup funds.
I am still at a loss to see how 120 countries voted for this resolution at Gamagori:
-
minutes were never distributed to NF’s informing them that a vote was to take place
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This vote was “sprung” on the NF’s in the meeting
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I know of a number of countries that abstained from voting due to the poor form shown by the ITU in “surprising” everyone
Actually I am still at a loss to see how 120 countries actually exist in world triathlon, but apprently they do.
I think I read somewhere where Slowman wrote that sports administrators are usually people who just want to wear the jacket and swan around at races showing off…unfortunately for 90% of the people in sports admin, I couldn’t agree more and this is just another example of who really matters in the world of sport and it’s not the athletes. Hopefully the 10% with some nous wil be able to fix this problem and the future problems that Skip, Les and their band of merry “yes men” will cause.