For the rest of you that can't get on Normann's KueenK, here is my review of the Kuota Kalibur (which you can actually buy...)

Triathlon Forum
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OK, sorry, this is a bit late. I wrote it up on a flight last week, but then I did not want to post while Paul Thomas had all you dudes drooling over the KueenK…but for the everyday man who cannot get his hands on the KueenK, you can ride Norman’s bike from last year. Here is my review :slight_smile:

I’m Riding the bike that Normann Stadler rode last year !!!

OK, first of all, before you read this, please keep in mind that the reviewer (me) is riding the Kalibur thanks to an age group sponsorship from Kuota North America (thanks Paul Thomas, Patrice Lemieux, Nadia and Manon at Kuota…). …and no, Patrice Lemieux who runs Kuota North America is not Mario Lemieux’s brother but he played pro hockey for the Boston Bruins…but I digress. Back the review.

I have now been on this bike for three weeks and in that span I have raced 2 half Ironmans, so its seen a good test of riding hard, riding long, riding in hills, riding bolted to the aerobars, riding flats, technical courses and in the rain.

This review is going to be a ‘real review’. I’m not going to say anything like, “The bottom bracket is stiff and transfers power to the road with huge efficiency” nor will I say, “the component selection is slick with a mix of Dura-Ace and Ultergra”….NO KIDDING…every carbon bike is supposed to be stiff and YES, Dura Ace is slick….why do reviewers even waste ink on these statements…if its stiff enough of Norman Stadler to ride 4:18 at Kona it sure is stiff enough for a 41 year old father, husband and semiconductor industry geek to put down a 2:18 at a half Ironman J

So how objective I am is going to be in this review is up to you to determine. I will try and be objective, but like any guy with a new toy, I am in the honeymoon phase of riding it, so take that for what it is worth…plus Kuota obviously wants me to promote the bike/brand and get others riding on Kuotas. Yes I think you should pick a Kuota and certainly so if you fall into the “not so steep” camp of tri riding…but keep reading.

During times in this review, I will compare the experience of the Kalibur to the bikes I have ridden in the past three years: QR Lucero, Cervelo P3SL, Cervelo Soloist, Guru Trilite, Kestrel 200Sc (road bike). I have ridden in tri positions from very slack (74 degrees) to very steep 82 degrees (effective angle riding the nose).

Flexibility of Position/Geometry

Over time, I have determined that no matter what geometry my seat is set up at, I end up riding on the front third of the seat, not to necessarily open up my hip angle, but to keep my boys hanging in front of the seat in a comfortable position, with my sit bones on the nose. As such, I have found that riding at 78 degrees seat angle puts me up at 80-82+ and my body parts don’t seem to like that. When I ride at 75-76 ish for seat placement, I actually end up at 78-80 or less and my body feels good. This is my sweet spot.

I have the Kuota Kalibur set up with the 76 degree seat (you can buy with a 74 if you are limited by UCI 5 cm behind BB rule), with a Selle Italia SLR Tri saddle. I have the SLR slammed all the way back and my sit bones are on the “fat part” of the nose with my “boys” hanging in front not getting compressed by any saddle….I have ridden 4 hours like this and the set up is fabulous…not a moment of crotch or neck discomfort.

My last bike was a QR Lucero, size small which did not allow me to go slack. Don’t get me wrong…all aspects of the Lucero were simply amazing, and if you are a “let me ride steeper” rider, this is the bike for you. After almost 2 seasons on the Lucero, I embarked on a search for a tri bike that would give me some more “flexibility at the slack end”, which lead me to tri bikes that were either centred around 76 or offered UCI legal seat post options.

I arrived at the Kalibur as I wanted a bike with these attributes but I was limiting my selection to the sweet ride of carbon Carbon. I had talked to Paul Thomas at Kuota about this at Wildflower in May. Other options that I was considering were the P2C, P3C, Kestrel Talon. I looked at the geometry of each bike and I determined that the Kalibur had what I needed.

When I got the Kalibur, I used a 110 mm stem instead of the 120mm stem that I had on the Lucero and set up all parameters identical and slid the seat back 2 cm behind where I had it on the Lucero, in the position that I wanted to ride in. This put me at the back end of the Kalibur with the 76 degree post. For those wanting to ride slacker, they can use the Kalibur’s 74 degree post. Please note that if you want to ride super duper steep, the Kalibur offers less flexibility than the QR Lucero or the P3SL. I cannot comment on the P3C or P2C as I have never ridden these bikes.

The Kalibur has a slightly longer rear stay than the QR bikes or Cervelos…the benefit is the elimination of what in my opinion are horrid rear facing drop outs…now I have a vertical drop out and I never have to worry about getting my hands full of grease when I remove the rear wheel. Getting it in and out is simplified if you remover the skewer first, shove the wheel in and then screw the skewer on. Another benefit of the 40 cm chain stay is nicer chain line and shifting.

Despite the longer rear centre the Kalibur handles really nicely, frankly the nicest handling small tri bike that I have ever ridden. The Front centre is also approximately 2 cm longer than the Lucero and finally the BB drop is slightly lower than what Cervelo or QR offer in its tri bikes, which seems to make for excellent handling. Since I am not an expert on fork rake and trail, I won’t comment, but with a slack 72 head tube, this certainly plays into the handling picture!

Aesthetics/Finish/Aero profile

Well, what can I say. This is the same bike that Stadler road to Kona victory…need I say more. It just looks hot and if you aren’t going to be on any race podiums, you have to look fast. The attention to detail on the Kalibur is great. Noticeably, the tubes don’t visually look as aero as on the QR’s or the Cervelos, but the fork is. The chainstays are thicker than the QR’s or Cervelos. In the real world test, my terminal velocity test on a hill that I use on a standard 90K loop from my home indicated that the Kalibur was certainly not slowing me down….I hit 70 kph on that hill just as I did with the Lucero and P3 multiple times in a variety of conditions…and regardless, if Norman can set Kona bike course records on this bike, it is plenty aero for the average age grouper…visuals can be deceptive…maybe this bike is just as aero.

Component Selection

I hate when reviewers talk about component selection….duh….all the components out there today are good. I have Durace on most of the bike expect for an Ultregra front derailleur and an FSA Gossmer 48/34 compact cranks and FSA headset. I love this combo, as I can pretty well ride most short races in the big ring with a 48x12 small gear (same 4:1 gear ratio that Lemond and Hinault used to ride the TdF TT’s on in the early 80’s) and I have a silly easy 34x25 for long hilly training, where I can maintain 90 RPM on very steep grades at 15 kph!. Please note that the “Ultegra Mix” package I chose comes with an Ultegra crank, but I put my compact on as a personal preference…I figure my engine is even within 50% of Lance’s so having gearing that is only 10-20% under what Lance used is a good mate for my “power plant”

Conclusion

The Kalibur is simply a fabulous bike. Frankly I am blessed to ride this machine and be sponsored by Kuota North America. It is ideal for those that want to ride moderately steep and those that want the flexibility of slamming the seat back to as far as 74 (using the UCI post) if you do chose for example to do an extended bike training camp in the Alps or Rockies where riding daily at 78+ on switchbacks is not optimal and might result in your putting your butt over the front end and over a guard rail into a ravine like Jan Ullrich J….but back to the point, I absolutely recommend this bike to the serious triathlete that wants to optimize comfort and aerodynamics….Oh yeah and did I say that this baby handles like a road bike on rollers? I can ride the Kalibur no hands on rollers or in the aero position revving it to 115 RPM with my head down and not eject myself. For those of us who live in Canada where there is snow for 5 months a year, this is the true test.

Finally over the past month, my last two half Ironman bike splits were 2:25 and 2:17 on the way to two 40-44 age group podiums and top ten overall placing at the Canadian Half Iron Distance and Demi Esprit in some pretty tough conditions….must be the bike (actually, I put down some pretty good swim-runs in those events too) J

Devashish Paul
“Fastest Man on a 48 tooth Chainring”

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Dev,
Great review, enjoyed the read. But I happen to be from the “I like to ride steep” camp, so I was interested in more specifics when you said “I have found that riding at 78 degrees seat angle puts me up at 80-82+ and my body parts don’t seem to like that”? I ride a Guru Crono with a 78 degree seat angle, and zero offset post, with an Arione Tri jacked almost all the way forward, but not quite. And I too tend to ride on the nose. During my last 3 Half Ironman races, I have had severe muscle pain in my vastus medialus in both legs, especially the left. Was just wondering if you’re body parts that are complaining might be the same? I’m beginning to wonder if my steep 80-82 degree angle is not the source of my discomfort.
Thanks,
Kevin

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Interesting that you mention the aerodynamics. Looking at the tube sections of the Kalibur I wouln’t say they are aero (in that they are aerofoiled at all). More like that they are triangular with a rounded rear section - thats not a teardrop. As for the fork that wasn’t aero bladed either. I take your point on the balancing and comfort though. It truly is a nice bike to ride. I’d recommend it.

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I have a long femur and big feet for my height and at some point I just get too steep to the point that I am no longer pedalling in a circle. A 78 degree bike just puts me waaaaaay forward when I ride the nose and my knees start bugging me.

Dev

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if you do chose for example to do an extended bike training camp in the Alps or Rockies where riding daily at 78+ on switchbacks is not optimal and might result in your putting your butt over the front end and over a guard rail into a ravine like Jan Ullrich J….but back to the point, I absolutely recommend this bike to the serious triathlete that wants to optimize comfort and aerodynamics….
**
Dev,
I tend to believe that good handling in a steep bike is still possible if the builder knows what they are doing. My Yaqui is mountain worthy and I’ll be riding it in the 83-85 degree range up and down the hills of American Zofingen in a couple of weeks. I guess we’ll see if I end up in a ditch. Back in May at World’s Toughest Half I blew by four or five folks on the wicket descent into the Green River and then outclimbed them on the way out. One of which was Victor Plata (Not that he didn’t pass me later in the ride and then run 10 minutes faster :slight_smile:

Chad

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Nice review and pretty objective…surprizing as I thought you were in semicon sales? :wink:

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Worse yet, I do Semiconductor Marketing…we are notorious for laying claims about high performance, low power, highest throughput, backward and forward compatibility, superior signal integrity, best price to performance ratio, and seamless interop with XYZ processors. Did I miss anything? At least the sales guys actually have to back things up with reality or the purchase order does not get cut…marketing guys can just fly in, lay pie in the sky claims and dissappear back to the factory ivory tower :-(.

You can tune into this ecast for the next round of techie marketing claims:

https://event.on24.com/eventRegistration/EventLobbyServlet?target=registration.jsp&eventid=93274&sessionid=1&key=290D729E70484965D0404ACDDA40D83B&partnerref=osp&sourcepage=register

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Hey Chad, I was thinking about your statement, however, I think that I have to disagree. On steep switchbacks, I am effectively steering my bike with my rear wheel. This means that my saddle has to be as “over the rear wheel as possible”…or alternatively stated, the rear wheel has to be tucked under your ass.

How do you do this on a steep angled bike? You can do it by making the shortest possible chainstay (like on a Cervelo P3…which has shorter stays than the P3C). But the bottom line is that a slacker seat angle bike with a reasonably tight chain stay is going to track better through a switchback than a steep angled bike with a really short chainstay (ex Cervelo Soloist or even Kuota Kalibur vs QR Lucero, or even Kuota KueenK). You can compensate all you want with a longer front centre and slacker head tube and play with fork rake etc, but on a steep switchback, you just want all your butt’s weight over the back wheel. At least this is my assessment, but perhaps I am missing something on bike handling dynamics. Also for the same reason I did not go for the Kestrel Talon. The rear stay is just way too long to ride this bike with a moderately forward seat position (which is where I would want to place the saddle).

Dev

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Dev,
And I will have to politely disagree with you in turn. The bike only has to be balanced well to handle on descents. How Ves achieved it, I don’t know, but I have attacked switchbacks on road bikes and my Yaqui and I daresay the Yaqui is an equal or better descender. My front end is so low now that I would not want to climb with my hands on the armrest pads for two hours from St Michel de Marienne to the top of the Galibier, but I would love to see someone try to get away from me on the twisty turns down to the Lauteret.
The two Cervelos I have used extensively had the typical short chainstays and their descending skills were sadly lacking. I climbed Mt. Evans once on a P2 and the drop back to Idaho Springs was so scary I did not have fun.
Of course, it is hard for me to judge the handling of Cervelos because you can’t ride them very steep under normal conditions, so to make them work I had to: 1) on the P2 I used an M2 seat shifter 2) on the P2C I used a really long saddle pushed as far forward on the rails with the clamp in the forward position. On both bikes my eyeballs are forward of the front hub on the aerobars, but even pushed back in the saddle I would not want to ride them down anything twisty. My Scott Waimea had the same problem though, so my issue is body type, thus necessitating a pseudo-custom solution like the Yaqui DE design made to ride very steep and still have neutral handling.
I was so used to the slow handling that when Ves built me the Davo, I wasn’t sure how much I liked the twitchy feel of a quicker handling bike.
Chad

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Chad, you mentioned that the Cervelo P2SL did not handle that great on descents. I’m not sure exactly why Cervelo does this with their TT bikes, but their BB drop is 60 mm whereas most other bikes are 68 or 70mm including the Cervelo Soloist. The only good reason might be related to the cutout and being able to get that back in tight with the cutout. The drawback is that your body is 1 cm higher in the air and off the ground, so this alone might explain your situation. I am sure that if you rode a Soloist, you’d track through every tight switchback just fine. What is the BB drop on your Yaqui?

The bottom line is that most of these TT bikes are not meant to really be ridden on technical courses. The fact that some handle well in this situation is simply a bonus.

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Actually, Dev, I was not referring to a P2SL since my P2 was the original model from '98. I borrowed it back from HH a couple of months back and it I have been using it as my PC bike in the aero position. I used to think Cervelo made the top tubes too long for me, but after riding it again and getting my hands on a P2C for a month, now I will go back to my other problem with Cervelo—seat tube angle. If they maintained their top tube length and made a steeper seat angle then perhaps I could ride them with more confidence. As it is, I have to push the seat as far forward as possible and this effectively shortens the top tube and the “cockpit” way too much for me. On the P2C I compensated by putting a negative 40 degree, 130mm stem to stretch me out again, but then I was hanging way out over the front end.
The result is here

http://www.brightroom.com/view_user_photo.asp?PID=&EVENTID=17892&PWD=&ID=38918133&FROM=browser&START=951&SHOW=50&CAT=152360&SUB=47263

and if you click the next photo you can see a bit of an angle. The body position was fine, but handling was understandably poor given the weight distribution.

I do not know how the bottom bracket height affects things. I know Ves made a comment about the Davo road bike, saying that he wasn’t going to raise the BB because I was crazy enough to be using long crankarms (he designed the Yaqui for 180s), so perhaps he did raise the bb a bit on the tri bike. If he did, then it has since been offset by me switching to 190mm arms. The difference between the Yaqui and both Cervelos was seat angle and head tube/fork rake. When riding the Yaqui on the aerobars I look straight down and my line of sight is a couple of inches behind the front hub. On either Cervelo with a somewhat shorter cockpit but similar “seat in front of bb distance” I was looking a couple of inches in front of the front hub.
I rode the P2C in the above pictured race for 30K but it had only a few turns and was not at all technical. It was fast, but I would not want to try it, for instance, at American Zofingen in a couple of weeks.
Chad

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http://208.177.25.70/0/17892/93/17892-093-024f.jpg
Wow, this is one of the first “real world” ST Aero positions that translates from the “lab/trainer” into real world racing. How long can you keep your neck in that position and I take it that it would pretty well be impossible to commute to work in this position with a 15 lb backpack with laptop, lunch and work clothes :-). Seriously through, what size P2C are you on what is your front centre. Interesting thing is that your position is almost identical to mine when I get “out of the saddle in aero position”…and even then, you are obviously lower (by the way, you need to get into the pool to get some upper body mass…). No way I’d want to ride the Kalibur with my weight that far forward for too long!

http://www.zoomphoto.ca/v2/events/10127/10127-103-10161797.jpg

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That position was one I used temporarily while I was borrowing the bike. It was a size 51 P2C that I switched out the seat, crankset and stem to achieve where I am in that pic. I don’t remember if I was at 24 or 25 cm of drop, but it was lower than anything else I have tried. I had to give it back eventually, so I never raced it again. If I knew how to post a pic, I would show you what it looks like from the side. The seat post was probably extended farther than it ought to be and I pulled all the spacers and even the headset top cap (which is like 1.5 cm high for some reason) so that the stem was sitting directly on the bearing races.

As for the head position, I am good for at least an hour, because I raced that way on my Yaqui at duathlon nations. I just completed my last long run/ride/run before AZ this past weekend and three and a half hours of it was enough to leave my neck screaming, but I’ll never have to ride it for that long, so it works for me. I do commute back and forth to work, but my pack is only about 10 pounds.

My dream project is to take a P2C or 3C or a Felt B2 in a larger size and replace the front fork with a 650c. That way it would finally be steep enough and low enough in front to ride properly.
Chad