So - been stuck on IM swims around 58-59 minutes for a few years now - and would like to improve (who wont?) somewhat.
I have working with dryland exercices and trying to improve my strokerate, which is currently at race pace around 64-66 SPM.
Can somebody give me some more input on what could work well, a part from the obvious “swim more” … 
Good swimmers - what is your stroke rate target for an IM swim ?
Cheers - T
I would say almost all good swimmers don’t have a target stroke rate. It’s all done by feel and we just know what works for us.
I personally don’t have a target but I know I take 6-7 stokes per 25 yards (with a flip turn).
That might very well be the case - but if you look at e.g. Kona coverage, the SPM of both male and female FOP and PROs, it is well above 65…
Look at Jodie Swallow here at a blazing 90 SPM avg - and they mention she can maintain that for hours basically.
T
Everyone has a different stroke rate. I know some very fast swimmers swim like wind up dolls (very high stroke rate) and can do it forever. I know that doesn’t work for me.
What I was trying to say in my reply is those swimmers aren’t consciously thinking before or during the swim that they need to have xx spm (a specific number)… not one of them is counting their strokes. What they are doing is going by feel and muscle memory. Whatever their spm is… it is what it is. After years and years of swimming, you know what works for you and you know when something feels off. For some that may be a longer distance per stroke and for others it’s high turnover. We don’t need data (swolf, spm, hr, etc) to tell us what’s going on during or after the swim… we can tell just by feel.
I am sorry - but I tend to disagree. Many good swimmers work a lot to achieve a higher SPM.
But that really is not so important to me.
I will rephrase my question, if that makes it easier: Good swimmers - what is your stroke rate AVERAGE for an IM swim ?
Tom
If you are interested in stroke rate check out the tower 26 podcast has lots of good discussion on there about stroke rate and everything swimming.
I try to shoot for 70 strokes per min or 35 stroke cycles (two arm pulls). When I fall much below that I go from racing to just out for a Sunday swim. So for me stroke rate is only in terms of keeping me mentally in the race and not distracted.
Didn’t wear a watch for my IM swim (1:19/100m) but looking at my other races this season ranged from 32 SPM (4.4 Great Chesapeake Bay Swim) to 34 SPM (5K Ocean swim, 3K Ocean swim, 4.4 mile river swim)
You are not going to be able drastically change and then sustain a different SPM. I have had some success with some of my athletes and a metronome; we get a base measurement and then increase it SPM 5-8 and then swimming until its comfortable (1-2 weeks).
Depending on your swimming background, goals, distance, current swim training schedule, a higher tempo may not be a cure all or magic fix.
Good Luck working on your swim this off season.
C. Hepp
I assume you mean 6-7 strokes per side/minute, otherwise you are dolphin kicking the crap out of every 25?!
Stroke rate is very condition dependent… head on chop, I am usually shortening my stroke depending on the swell period(distance b/t waves) and speeding it up potentially… with the chop, I am lengthening and gliding out, letting the waves assist, slower turnover… side chop/angle chop it’s all dependent on staying comfortable. If it’s glassy, staying long and gliding, whatever number that is for you.
Are all those times wetsuit times? Make a big difference in the advice you should get.
As a “good”* swimmer (1:18/100m for 2k, haven’t done an IM-length swim, but it wouldn’t be much slower), I second that I don’t think about it at all. People that have seen me swim have remarked that my stroke rate is very low compared to those around me, but that’s not by design, it’s just how I feel like swimming.
Occasionally swim teams will do stroke-count drills, but it’s fairly rare. The best drill I can recommend is to just try to minimize your stroke count on a couple lengths by reaching, doing long coasts on entry, and so on. Exaggerating that stuff might help your brain make the connection and get a lower stroke count during more typical swims. But really, the answer is “swim more, and with faster people”.
*I’m much slower than actual competitive swimmers or how fast I used to be, but still occasionally post the top swim split.
Many good swimmers work a lot to achieve a higher SPM.
Majority of good swimmers spend an insignificant amount of time thinking about stroke rate compared to clock time. Just as time spent on strides/min while running is insignificant for good runners compared to clock time. Weertmann, who won the Olympic 10k had a stroke rate of about 60 while leading the pack mid race.
Quality replies and responses! Thanks a bunch!
Monty - my swim times stated above are wetsuit times
I use this Finis Tempo Training to practice higher stroke rate, its a metronome or a wetronome if you want. Works wonders.
I guess we can agree that these guys are fairly good OW swimmers - and also agree that they all swim with a very high (80+ maybe?) stroke rate. Same thing as the best pros in Kona (IMO)
Further input on SPM for wetsuit IM swims are still much appreciated, thanks!
Tom
I agree there is no magic number for stroke per min, it should be based on stroke type, body type, conditioning, and adjusted as required to meet environmental conditions.
I disagree that stroke rate is insignificant. Yes, it is ingrained in training/racing so that experienced swimmers can go by feel but that means developing swimmers need to think about it until it can be automatic. Look at Ledecky, she and other national team swimmers all get and presumably benefit from the video and data analysis that have stroke rate in addition to clock time.
I would say almost all good swimmers don’t have a target stroke rate. It’s all done by feel and we just know what works for us.
I personally don’t have a target but I know I take 6-7 stokes per 25 yards (with a flip turn).
I agree.
I never even think about stroke rate, I just swim steady, long and smooth. Seems to get me out of the water right at the front every time.
Sorry that’s not more helpful to the op.
Edit/add after reading more responses:
To qualify where my statements come from, as another said, i’m not as fast as I was when I focused on swimming", but I still typically post one of the faster swim times at any given event.
Also as others have stated, my stroke rate os typically slower than most, but I cover much more ground.
Maybe it’s because I dont really kick much?
My background was swim teams from about 6 years old through college, and heaps of ow swimming working summers as a lifeguard.
I do change up my stroke in open ocean swims with a lot of swell - longer glide going down swell, choppier going into it, etc
I think you are confusing cause and effect. If you start going faster, your SPM will get higher. That does not mean that increasing your SPM will make you go faster.
That is a very valid point chaparral. I agree that higher SPM does not lead to higher speed, necesarily. I wasnt actually concluding anything, it was just an observation. I was merely asking a question…
There is a small test and graph you can use in this article from Swim Smooth - quite interesting…
I disagree that stroke rate is insignificant.
I didn’t say it was insignificant. I said most swimmers spend an insignificant amount of time (not zero) on stroke rate compared to their clock times. The OP said that swimmers spend a lot of time on stroke rate. I agree that developing swimmers should be aware of what stroke rate is and experiment with it. Stroke rate can vary a lot from one individual to another (swimming at the same pace and level of exertion) so how significant can it be?
Ok wetsuit times makes a big difference in SPM. You commented on the Kona swimmers, but that is a true OW swim, long distance and no wetsuit. You would expect to se 80+ or more even with some people. Less if they are in a good draft and not drilling it to stay there.
If you swim in a wetsuit you will take a ton less strokes, you don’t have the issue of your body falling down in the water, you are always in 18 flat 50 SCY position! And to further lower the rate, you should be sitting right on someones feet, so you can take long and steady pulls, without much pressure on the water as it is already moving your direction. You don’t want to do 90SPM in a wetsuit, you will just burn up your shoulders and no need really.
Now for just pool swimming it is not much different, most great swimmers work on a combination of both. But if they are training for the OW(real OW) then they would play with higher stroke counts because that has been shown to be the way to go for the top folks. Doesn’t seem to be any disagreement there, just watch any of these races, even the 25k ones, super high stroke rates for most of the races. It is a kind of spinning so to speak, like a cyclist has to do for long races. You don’t see them pushing huge gears and 70RPM, they are up there in the 90’s most of the time.
Pretty sure we are in the same lane, don’t want to pile on. Stroke rate is just another mental check. Like you said earlier OP (just like the rest of us) will have to concern themselves with clock time and get in some faster repeats to try to get off that plateau.
I assume you mean 6-7 strokes per side/minute, otherwise you are dolphin kicking the crap out of every 25?!
Stroke rate is very condition dependent… head on chop, I am usually shortening my stroke depending on the swell period(distance b/t waves) and speeding it up potentially… with the chop, I am lengthening and gliding out, letting the waves assist, slower turnover… side chop/angle chop it’s all dependent on staying comfortable. If it’s glassy, staying long and gliding, whatever number that is for you.
Yes that’s 6-7 strokes counting every other stroke per 25 yards (not per minute)
For everyone… when swimmers count stroke rate, it’s counted per length (25 yards, 50m, or whatever size pool they are in). There isn’t any swimmer out there that counts strokes per minute. Carry on…
I am sorry - but I tend to disagree. Many good swimmers work a lot to achieve a higher SPM.
Apparently I’m not a good swimmer.