Flying mount question--shoes with no heel loops?

Triathlon Forum
1

Hey, all00
I’m approaching my first race where I’ll be doing a flying mount. (I’ve got CX experience so I’m not too worried about it. I’ve also practiced putting on and removing shoes while riding.)

I’ve got Specialized road shoes, which are not ideal for flying mounts (the tongue doesn’t open an extreme amount if I leave the BOA loops attached…and if I detach them they’re a little trickier to affix while riding).

Anyway…the point of this message is to ask what people do when positioning their shoes for the flying mount when those shoes do not have heel straps. I thought about using some duct tape on the back of the shoe but the tape might pull before the rubber band breaks (more likely to get caught in something). Another thought is a paper clip or safety pin somewhere near the top of the heel.

What do others do?

Thanks for the tips! I plan to practice with the setup in the next few days.

2

Clearly a flying mount will be easier in the future for you with a single or double hook-n-loop strap (Velcro) but for now here are some thoughts.

A flying mount can be done with no rubber bands involved at all. The shoe dangles upside down and you have to be careful running with the bike as the shoes can hit the ground and get release from the pedal but to account for that be lightly lifting on the saddle as you run so that if the shoes do get caught up in ground contact you can just pick the bike up and get past that moment. This is true for the dismount when shoes are left on and dangling. With practice you can very fast without bands.

I’m going to lay this out but I’m not going to recommend it. You’re shoes are really expensive so this highly questionable…If you simply have to have rubber bands involved and you don’t mind making a permanent change to your shoe - I have done this with some old mtb shoes - take a dremel too with a cone shaped grinder and bore a very small hole above the heel cup but well below the top cuff of the shoe. The heat from the bore melts/seals as you go and you’ll be left with a very small hole that you can feed a band through.

Lastly - and I don’t know because I don’t ride a shoe with a boa but can’t you loop a band around cable dial and rig it so it stays level? That might be worth a try.

Ian

3

I practice without rubber bands and the shoes just dangling. I have not had any issues. I use rubber bands at races for extra insurance. Using a safety pin as the loop is not the most elegant solution but would probably work.

4

Rubber band between pedal spindle and quick release on non-drive side. Does not need to be “looped” to anything (so it breaks and falls cleanly away). The shoes will not be held level (but only one would have been anyway), but the cranks will be level at 9 and 3 so you don’t risk striking a shoe on the ground and any of the various disasters that we have all seen arise in T1 from that.

5

I have done 5-6 races with flying mounts in Specialized comp shoes. I use a safety pin on the backs/heals to attach a rubber band. It is hard to push thru but works out just fine. I left the pins in for about 6 months but they eventually rusted and bent to the point they wouldn’t work. So now I only put in the safety pins for race day.

As far as opening the shoe. I just try to pull the boa as loose as possible and get that tongue up and open wide. While not as good as a tri shoe I seem to be able to get them open pretty far and easy to slide on. I also put a little lube on the underside of the tongue to help with sliding in (use chamois cream, body glide, or vasoline. The boa is pretty easy to reach and spin closed once you get some momentum on the bike.

Tip #1 - make sure you put the right shoe on the correct pedal. I speak from experience:). Not much time gained when you have to dismount and swap shoes 30 ft from transition.
Tip #2 - Practice - My neighbors think I’m crazy but the day before races I set up mini transition in the garage. I will run in barefoot - do t1 and flying mount - ride down the block and back in at full speed dismount and do T2. Doing 10 or so practices like this the day before make the race transition go much better.

I may save another 5 seconds with a tri shoe but not worth it to me until it is time to replace these shoes.

6

A flying mount can be done with no rubber bands involved at all. The shoe dangles upside down and you have to be careful running with the bike as the shoes can hit the ground and get release from the pedal but to account for that be lightly lifting on the saddle as you run so that if the shoes do get caught up in ground contact you can just pick the bike up and get past that moment. This is true for the dismount when shoes are left on and dangling. With practice you can very fast without bands.

true. my practice thus far has been w/o rubber bands. fortunately for this race i don’t have to run while pushing the bike (you’re basically allowed to bike right out of the transition area at this low-key event), so maybe foregoing rubber bands is best. i can push off with my left foot from a stand-still and then the right foot is dangling. easy to step on the shoe at that point.

Lastly - and I don’t know because I don’t ride a shoe with a boa but can’t you loop a band around cable dial and rig it so it stays level? That might be worth a try.
Ian

yes. at first i did not want to go this route because i thought the rubber band would interfere with me putting my foot in the shoe, but obviously it would have snapped by that time.

I practice without rubber bands and the shoes just dangling. I have not had any issues. I use rubber bands at races for extra insurance. Using a safety pin as the loop is not the most elegant solution but would probably work.

thanks. yeah–it was about a bit of extra security. i’ve practiced and will do so a bit more.

Rubber band between pedal spindle and quick release on non-drive side. Does not need to be “looped” to anything (so it breaks and falls cleanly away). The shoes will not be held level (but only one would have been anyway), but the cranks will be level at 9 and 3 so you don’t risk striking a shoe on the ground and any of the various disasters that we have all seen arise in T1 from that.

good point. as long as the cranks are level i’m good. i think i need to get some longer rubber bands! i picked some up but now that i look at them there snow way they’ll stretch from a crank at 9 o’clock to the rear QR.

As far as opening the shoe. I just try to pull the boa as loose as possible and get that tongue up and open wide. While not as good as a tri shoe I seem to be able to get them open pretty far and easy to slide on. I also put a little lube on the underside of the tongue to help with sliding in (use chamois cream, body glide, or vasoline. The boa is pretty easy to reach and spin closed once you get some momentum on the bike.

Tip #1 - make sure you put the right shoe on the correct pedal. I speak from experience:). Not much time gained when you have to dismount and swap shoes 30 ft from transition.
Tip #2 - Practice - My neighbors think I’m crazy but the day before races I set up mini transition in the garage. I will run in barefoot - do t1 and flying mount - ride down the block and back in at full speed dismount and do T2. Doing 10 or so practices like this the day before make the race transition go much better.

I may save another 5 seconds with a tri shoe but not worth it to me until it is time to replace these shoes.

thank you. to be clear, i found that it was easy to slip my foot into the shoe, it’s just that it is not a HUGE opening unless i unlatch the BOA’s wire. i was actually surprised at how easy it was. i’d seen all the transition/crashing videos and assumed it would be pretty challenging.

i will be tired when i make this transition, so the main thing for me will just be doing a flying mount (i’m used to cyclocross mounts, so not too big an issue i don’t think) and pedaling with my feet on the shoes until i catch my breath/gain composure.

and, yes, i’m going to practice a bit more before the race this weekend–wanted to do that practice with whatever solution was recommended

i appreciate all the advice.

7

At every race you see them. The racers who want to look like the pro’s. Run up barefoot, hop on and then waist minutes wobbling along trying to get their feet into their shoes while bicycles are flying past. And they have the right shoes! Do yourself a big favor and put your shoes on in transition, then run up, jump on and hit the gas. Same thing coming in, you don’t have the right shoes to be taking them off on the fly. Ride up, hop off, take off your shoes at the rack.

When you get a pair of triathlon shoes, then you can try mounting like a pro!

8

At every race you see them. The racers who want to look like the pro’s. Run up barefoot, hop on and then waist minutes wobbling along trying to get their feet into their shoes while bicycles are flying past. And they have the right shoes! Do yourself a big favor and put your shoes on in transition, then run up, jump on and hit the gas. Same thing coming in, you don’t have the right shoes to be taking them off on the fly. Ride up, hop off, take off your shoes at the rack.

When you get a pair of triathlon shoes, then you can try mounting like a pro!

thanks for the concern. i’ve actually done it a bunch of times and found it pretty trivial. i also calculated the time i’ll save (did it both ways). this event will be ~45’ total, so the small time savings may matter for me.

anyone who is unable to throw a leg over the bike while moving, get up to 20mph, then slip their feet into their shoes probably should spend a bit of time working on handling skills.

9

I use S-works road shoes, which fit me like a glove but have a very narrow opening and are incredibly awful to run in.

Great on the bike, terrible for transition.

Anyone had any experience with these shoes and trying to get them on which you’re attached to the bike and riding?

And T2? How did you go there?

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2013/03/19/2/sworks_road_1_670.jpg

10

At every race you see them. The racers who want to look like the pro’s. Run up barefoot, hop on and then waist minutes wobbling along trying to get their feet into their shoes while bicycles are flying past. And they have the right shoes! Do yourself a big favor and put your shoes on in transition, then run up, jump on and hit the gas. Same thing coming in, you don’t have the right shoes to be taking them off on the fly. Ride up, hop off, take off your shoes at the rack.

When you get a pair of triathlon shoes, then you can try mounting like a pro!

thanks for the concern. i’ve actually done it a bunch of times and found it pretty trivial. i also calculated the time i’ll save (did it both ways). this event will be ~45’ total, so the small time savings may matter for me.

anyone who is unable to throw a leg over the bike while moving, get up to 20mph, then slip their feet into their shoes probably should spend a bit of time working on handling skills.

Let me know how it goes.

11

I use S-works road shoes, which fit me like a glove but have a very narrow opening and are incredibly awful to run in.

Great on the bike, terrible for transition.

Anyone had any experience with these shoes and trying to get them on which you’re attached to the bike and riding?

And T2? How did you go there?

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2013/03/19/2/sworks_road_1_670.jpg

that’s what i’m using. i’ve not found them hard to get into/out of–but fwiw the non-asymmetric tongue (older) version is a bit easier (i have both).

as was mentioned above, crank open the BOA dials and my feet can slip in with no trouble. i thought it would be very difficult but it’s not a big deal. guess you want to make sure that when pedaling but your feet are not in the shoes you don’t push down so the tongue gets stuck in the shoe, which would make things more difficult. may be easier to put a piece of tape to ensure the tongue stays attached to the upper wire.

12

At every race you see them. The racers who want to look like the pro’s. Run up barefoot, hop on and then waist minutes wobbling along trying to get their feet into their shoes while bicycles are flying past. And they have the right shoes! Do yourself a big favor and put your shoes on in transition, then run up, jump on and hit the gas. Same thing coming in, you don’t have the right shoes to be taking them off on the fly. Ride up, hop off, take off your shoes at the rack.

When you get a pair of triathlon shoes, then you can try mounting like a pro!

thanks for the concern. i’ve actually done it a bunch of times and found it pretty trivial. i also calculated the time i’ll save (did it both ways). this event will be ~45’ total, so the small time savings may matter for me.

anyone who is unable to throw a leg over the bike while moving, get up to 20mph, then slip their feet into their shoes probably should spend a bit of time working on handling skills.

Let me know how it goes.

thanks. i already have…i can put on and take of the shoes with ease pretty much any time i am riding. i’ve done it a bunch. i’d just like to use the rubber bands for keeping things level as i start. do you have any suggestions for that?

13

I know you say you can take them on and off while riding but have you actually ridden around standing on them?

I have the expert road and the expert tri shoes, plus have had other tri shoes.

The tops of them are completely different they actually flatten out and give you something to stand on easily without boa stuff jamming in your foot. I just don’t really see those being all that comfortable or safe to stand on and ride.

14

You’re overthinking it. Keep it simple or you’re just creating more opportunities for things to go wrong. Minimize the things you have going on in a race.

I use specialized road shoes and don’t use rubberbands. The shoes dangle a bit but the crankarms stay horizontal while pushing the bike so it’s not a big deal- as long as you don’t wheel it backwards. When you hop on, you can just flip the shoes up with your feet. If you’ve done cx you should have more than enough bike competence to pull that off. I’ve never had trouble getting my heel in - so I honestly don’t even know how I do it. It just happens.

15

I have always done flying mounts, don’t think i’ve ever done a race without one. Have a CX background also, so that helps. For about 5 years I raced with my road shoes before I got tri shoes. I always just let them hang on the pedals and it was never that much of a problem. Tri shoes with a single velcro strap, and rubber bands around the heel loops certainly make for a slightly faster transition, but the rubber bands only help a little. You’ll be fine.

16

I know you say you can take them on and off while riding but have you actually ridden around standing on them?

I have the expert road and the expert tri shoes, plus have had other tri shoes.

The tops of them are completely different they actually flatten out and give you something to stand on easily without boa stuff jamming in your foot. I just don’t really see those being all that comfortable or safe to stand on and ride.

yes, i have ridden the bike from 0 to 20 mph standing on the shoes in bare feet. there’s nothing tricky about it.

17

To hold normal shoes on with bands I make sure I have big rubber bands first. Then I loop the rear shoe side round the chainstay and through it’s self then hold it open and put it round the entire heal of the shoe (so the top of the band will be between your foot and the shoe when you get on.) For the front facing foot I pass the band over the front of the shoe, then over the rear and slide it up the crank so it’s hanging there of it’s own accord. I then stretch it over the heal of the shoe again.

Iain

18

Also - have you practiced this wet feet? I find it quite a bit harder sticking my foot into a thight shoe with wet feet coming off the swim, as opposed to the dry feet I\d practiced transition with;)

19

You’re overthinking it. Keep it simple or you’re just creating more opportunities for things to go wrong. Minimize the things you have going on in a race.

I use specialized road shoes and don’t use rubberbands. The shoes dangle a bit but the crankarms stay horizontal while pushing the bike so it’s not a big deal- as long as you don’t wheel it backwards. When you hop on, you can just flip the shoes up with your feet. If you’ve done cx you should have more than enough bike competence to pull that off. I’ve never had trouble getting my heel in - so I honestly don’t even know how I do it. It just happens.

yeah–overthinking for sure. wanted to cover all the bases before the race so i wasn’t “that guy” trying something new on race day.

you all were right. after my track workout today, i practiced some mounts (figured it would be good to do them tired). it was pretty easy, even without rubber bands. i’m still thinking one rubber band on the left/NDS shoe might just make that first step easier and also prevent things from moving in case someone touches/bumps my bike, but no big deal. i’ll give that a quick shot tomorrow just to see what i think.

the only nuisance is that when i’m gong 20mph and then want to slip my feet in, the shoe i’m gong to slide my foot into is at the 12 o’clock position…when i take my foot off the heel drops and the shoe swings for a few seconds. that’s the trickiest part–just catching the opening with my toe. and that’s not a big deal.

I have always done flying mounts, don’t think i’ve ever done a race without one. Have a CX background also, so that helps. For about 5 years I raced with my road shoes before I got tri shoes. I always just let them hang on the pedals and it was never that much of a problem. Tri shoes with a single velcro strap, and rubber bands around the heel loops certainly make for a slightly faster transition, but the rubber bands only help a little. You’ll be fine.

thanks. you are right!

To hold normal shoes on with bands I make sure I have big rubber bands first. Then I loop the rear shoe side round the chainstay and through it’s self then hold it open and put it round the entire heal of the shoe (so the top of the band will be between your foot and the shoe when you get on.) For the front facing foot I pass the band over the front of the shoe, then over the rear and slide it up the crank so it’s hanging there of it’s own accord. I then stretch it over the heal of the shoe again.

Iain

i’ll test your suggestion with one shoe. thank you!

Also - have you practiced this wet feet? I find it quite a bit harder sticking my foot into a thight shoe with wet feet coming off the swim, as opposed to the dry feet I\d practiced transition with;)
actually, this is for a smaller event–just a running race followed by a ride/TT, so no wet feet. makes it easier for sure.

kick my shoes off and BOOM!

20

thanks for the help in this thread.

Let me know how it goes.

race went well (won the overall…it was just a little local race).

i wound up using a single rubber band to hold the NDS crank @ 3 o’clock and opted to let the shoes dangle. wasn’t a problem to do the flying mount, get up to speed and get my foot in.

had one problem where the wire of the upper BOA came off the retention loop. i was looking ahead while turning the dial so had inadvertently retracted the wire all the way. i realized what was up but then decided not to waste more time screwing with it (a turn was coming up), so i just put the hammer down and raced with the upper BOA undone. it was completely fine and didn’t affect my ride/power.

i appreciated the discussion and encouragement. the flying mount is pretty easy with a total of 15’ of practicing.

thanks!