FLO CYCLING, FLO 90 test ride and review

To start this off, FLO is not paying me or giving me any wheels for free to write this.  I’m more than willing to answer any questions about my experience with the wheel but I’ll be on iPhone power for the next 5 days so responses will be slow and short.

Second a little background on me.  Been doing triathlon 10 years and have done every distance (except ultra), bike racing 7 years and currently a CAT 2 but getting back more to the triathlon roots this year.  I regularly train on some form of a 32 spoke wheel, in the past it’s been Mavic OP’s (gone through a few sets of those), currently my regular trainers are DT Swiss wheels on Record hubs, but I’ve also trained on Campy Shamals, OEM shimano wheels, Alex Rims, FSA (and I’m sure I’m missing a few others) but if I have my way it’s a solid 32 spoke wheel with a nice hub.  I’ve been racing on Enve Composites (road and tri) for the previous 2 years, this is my 3rd road season on those but switched to a Renn Disc and trispoke front for TT/Tri.  Before that I’ve used Zipp 404’s (tri only) and HED 3’s (tri only).  Current weight is about 176lbs.

I had the opportunity to test ride a front FLO 90 wheel (thanks Jon and Chris).  Initial impression when I opened the box was WOW…this wheel is way nicer than I expected.  Couple of things I learned right away; 90mm is a DEEP wheel and I was going to need to track down either some long valve extensions or a long valve…so a couple of 80mm valve tubes, and a 40mm valve extension later and I was in business.  Second thing was the magnet location.  I ride a 65mm wheel normally and the magnet is right at the edge of where the spoke and wheel meet, I wasn’t going to adjust my sensor for this ride so if you ask about speed/power/HR in comparison don’t ask because I don’t have it…sorry.  
Third thing I noticed was wow that wheel is wide, and man that fairing is thin…not paper thin, but when your used a deep carbon wheel as structure, a fairing seems much thinner.

This is their prototype wheel so I knew what to expect based on their comments on here and Jon telling me in advance…let me just say for a wheel that was assembled in your garage, well done gentlemen…yes the spoke holes are big, the valve stem hole is too and the fairing is not exactly perfectly lined up on the rim, but this was way better then I expected and I would easily pay $300-$400 for this wheel.

The hub…well it’s black and it spins…honestly I think it’s hard to determine if a hub is good just from a few rides unless you go from an old crappy hub to a nice quality new hub.  But holding it in my hand it spins smooth, is adjusted properly (not too tight and no play) and rode very well.  Only time will tell but I’m sure it will be fine.

Weight…he posted them but in my hand it felt comparable to my Enve 65mm clincher

Overall Appearance…love it…love the silver spokes and keep the black brake tracks (I’m gonna try and wear that down by the way).

I decided to mount it on my road bike because I’m using it in a draft legal race this weekend (Armed Forces Triathlon).  I ride Michelin PR3 so I mounted it and my 120mm stemmed tube with no problem’s, not any harder or easier to mount than any other wheel I’ve used it on.  The tire was older so it was definitely easier than a new tire though.

I hopped on my bike and headed out to Fiesta Island to test it out.  Wind in San Diego at that time was about 9-10 mph (per the weather channel) and the loops on Fiesta would give me the opportunity to test that 90mm wheel at every wind angle to see how it handled.  Immediately I could tell this was a solid wheel.  No creaking, no flexing and it was a very stable, smooth ride.  I took as many corners as I could as hard and fast as possible trying to flex the wheel and get it to flex and rub the brakes, no luck.  Got out and sprinted, no luck.  Initial impression…these are good wheels.

It’s a 3 mile ride there and about 1 mile in I realized I needed to bring other wheels with me to get a good comparison of how this 90mm wheel handles in a crosswind.  I got in my warm up out to there, did two short laps, then went back, got my truck, my Enve Composites 65mm clincher, and a Specialized Trispoke all with a Michelin PR3 tire (trispoke is a 20mm tire vice a 23mm) and headed back to Fiesta.

During those two laps this is what I noticed.  Did I feel the wind, yes, but it was pretty windy out and I wasn’t riding a 32 hole box rim so no matter what your on if it’s deep your gonna feel it.  Gusts of wind obviously affected it more than a steady wind, but at no time did I feel like I couldn’t handle this in my normal riding/racing conditions, to include Fiesta Island winds.  I like the way it handled, I don’t know what it was but it rode smooth and cornered very well.  It was torsionally stiff, so that definitely helped but even going straight it was a nice smooth stable ride.

After I got back I started doing some wheel swapping.

First up was the tri spoke.  From the initial ride to the trispoke it seemed like I could feel less wind pushing me around, however 30 minutes had passed so obviously wind could have changed.  I did two more laps on that wheel.  The trispoke defintely didn’t ride as nice (no kidding with a 20mm vice 23mm tire) but it didn’t track as smoothly either.  Trispoke vs FLO 90…winner FLO 90

Next was the Enve Composites 65mm clincher.  Now this wheel felt much more stable then the trispoke.  Spun up faster, and just rode nicer.  Definitely could feel it more in the crosswinds.  I did two laps again on this wheel.  Enve 65 vs FLO 90…undecided

Finally I went back to the Flo 90 for a couple final laps and a cool down.  What I noticed now was that this spun up very quickly, quicker than the Enve…mmmm I don’t know but quite possibly; It was extremely stable and smooth to ride (yes more than the Enve 65) and in the crosswind was stable, but did move around a bit like I mentioned before…I would say it was comparable to the Enve 65mm in regards to how much I felt it pushed me around.  FLO 90 vs Enve 65…Winner FLO 90.

I’ll take it out on my TT bike tomorrow so check back for round two and see how that turns out.  Honestly I’m tempted to sell my carbon wheels and buy a 60mm set for road racing, a 90/Disc for TT/Triathlon…that’s how impressed I was.

Finally since I’m on an iPhone I can email someone some pictures if they want to post them.  Let me know what you want to see angles or close-ups of and send me your email address.

Cheers

Greg

Thanks for the thorough write-up, Greg. Can’t wait to check them out this weekend.

Awesome Greg, I can’t wait to try my pair!

Great write-up and they sound great. Especially for the price. I am excited to get my hands on a disc/90 combo.

Greg,

I’m very glad you like the wheels. I can’t thank you enough for the thorough write up. Let me know if you would like me to post any pictures. Just send an email to Jon or I and I’ll get them posted.

Best of luck at the race this weekend,

Let me know if you would like me to post any pictures

Post some pics, Please!

Any indication when we will be able to order and expected prices? And please tell me you can ship overseas!

Thanks for the review!
Anyone know when we should see some drag data?

And good luck at Pt. Mugu. . . unless you’re ahead of my Canadian military counterparts :slight_smile:

Sounds great! Glad to hear you were impressed…can’t wait until it is my turn!

Any indication when we will be able to order and expected prices? And please tell me you can ship overseas!

Right now our estimated prices are $350 for front wheels and $399 for rear wheels. Our Disc wheels are currently estimated at $499. “IF” all goes as planned we hope to offer our pre-order in May. And yes… we will gladly ship overseas!

Thanks for your interest,

Thanks for the review!
Anyone know when we should see some drag data?

And good luck at Pt. Mugu. . . unless you’re ahead of my Canadian military counterparts :slight_smile:

We are scheduled in the wind tunnel near the end of this month. We will be putting together a full report after we are finished compiling our data. I’d expect to see it sometime in May.

Take care,

Finally I went back to the Flo 90 for a couple final laps and a cool down. What I noticed now was that this spun up very quickly, quicker than the Enve…mmmm I don’t know but quite possibly…

Another data point supporting my assertion that aerodynamics is more important than any other wheel feature in the perception of “spin up”…WAY more important than any mass/inertia differences. Thanks!

Let me know if you would like me to post any pictures

Post some pics, Please!

Here are some pictures for your viewing pleasure. I’ll get some more up if I get them… For now you can see more pics and video here… http://flocycling.blogspot

Greg’s Bike

http://i55.tinypic.com/1193r6o.jpg

Our Pics from our Blog

http://i53.tinypic.com/2cxe25f.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/5b9ydl.jpg

Thanks for the review!
Anyone know when we should see some drag data?

And good luck at Pt. Mugu. . . unless you’re ahead of my Canadian military counterparts :slight_smile:

We are scheduled in the wind tunnel near the end of this month. We will be putting together a full report after we are finished compiling our data. I’d expect to see it sometime in May.

Take care,

Hey Chris, stuff looks great and its super cool how you’re sharing this experience with ST. Thanks also for posting the weights earlier.

Question on your thought process regarding the upcoming wind tunnel testing. Assuming the tunnel will serve as validation to your previous work and analysis (CFD modeling, etc.) of the design. Since you’re pretty far along the process of getting these wheels out, do you have an expected mendoza line in the drag data where you feel you need to go back and tweak the design? Curious on your thinking here and expectations, especially as a small start-up. I’m sure we all expect it to be very competitive given the data we know from similar designs and the effort you’ve put forth.

Finally I went back to the Flo 90 for a couple final laps and a cool down. What I noticed now was that this spun up very quickly, quicker than the Enve…mmmm I don’t know but quite possibly…

Another data point supporting my assertion that aerodynamics is more important than any other wheel feature in the perception of “spin up”…WAY more important than any mass/inertia differences. Thanks!

With all due respect, this is no more a data point than the comparisons where someone else “feels” that the lighter wheel spins up faster.

While I don’t disbelieve your assertions, this review hardly counts as data. It’s simply a review.

Thanks for the review!
Anyone know when we should see some drag data?

And good luck at Pt. Mugu. . . unless you’re ahead of my Canadian military counterparts :slight_smile:

We are scheduled in the wind tunnel near the end of this month. We will be putting together a full report after we are finished compiling our data. I’d expect to see it sometime in May.

Take care,

Hey Chris, stuff looks great and its super cool how you’re sharing this experience with ST. Thanks also for posting the weights earlier.

Question on your thought process regarding the upcoming wind tunnel testing. Assuming the tunnel will serve as validation to your previous work and analysis (CFD modeling, etc.) of the design. Since you’re pretty far along the process of getting these wheels out, do you have an expected mendoza line in the drag data where you feel you need to go back and tweak the design? Curious on your thinking here and expectations, especially as a small start-up. I’m sure we all expect it to be very competitive given the data we know from similar designs and the effort you’ve put forth.

Great question. When we started this process we said that we would provide an affordable wheel that was also aerodynamic. People asked how will we prove that? We answered, we’ll go to the wind tunnel. As you mentioned we’ve spent a lot of time and money completing CFD modelling. In my opinion I feel the CFD results will be very close to our wind tunnel data. We did a lot of our design using CFD simply because it is far more cost effective than creating a variety of custom molds and spending days in wind tunnel to find the best fit. Our CFD results are very very promising. Being a start-up, this trip to the wind tunnel will be more of a proof or validation to our potential customers and followers that we have in fact created aerodynamic wheels. Currently, we do not have the capital to redesign from scratch. Next year or the year after could be a different story. I envision more time in the tunnel if/when that becomes a possibility.

So will our wheels be as aerodynamic as the most aerodynamic wheels on the market? To be honest, I don’t know. A lot of companies claim to have “the fastest wheels in the world”. They do that by finding a specific wind speed and yaw angle where they are the fastest. I can tell you however, that if Flo wheels are not the most aerodynamic wheels in the world at angle X and wind speed Y… I’m quite sure they will be awfully close and certainly much more aero than a standard training wheel. But who rides at angle X and wind speed Y at all times? Maybe at angle Z and wind Speed W we’ll be the fastest? Remember 80% of ride time in a race is spent between 10 and 20 degrees yaw angle. It is most important to see a sweet spot in a drag plot between these angles, and we are seeing a sweet spot in this range in our CFD modeling. And hey… if you’ve seen our prices that’s not bad :wink:

Thanks for your question and the compliments.

I missed the weight data of your wheels, could you please re post that. I am considering selling my 2008 Zipp 404F/808R in order to go with your wheels. I need to look at all aspects and info on your wheels, before I take a plunge.

i really wish weight weenies would stop posting about these wheels. they keep perpetuating the myth that a few hundred grams makes a difference.

the focus of these wheels are aerodynamics>price>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>weight

I missed the weight data of your wheels, could you please re post that. I am considering selling my 2008 Zipp 404F/808R in order to go with your wheels. I need to look at all aspects and info on your wheels, before I take a plunge.
Not to steal any thunder from Flo, but I just got done reading the numbers on their blog so I’ll repost:
To everyone who asked about weight…

I had a chance to weight our prototype wheel last night. We are still working on sourcing some parts to make these lighter but nothing is a guarantee yet. Here are the current ROUGH weights which are pretty close to the other aero clinchers on the market.

Front 60mm - 895 grams
Rear 60mm - 1085 grams

Front 90mm - 975 grams
Rear 90mm - 1165 grams
To Flo:
I think you have yourselves a very solid product here! Personally, I’d much rather purchase an aero wheelset, even if it’s not the fastest (which has yet to be determined via the tunnel), from a small, personal company rather than a gigantic faceless corporation. I haven’t seen anything of yet that I don’t absolutely love about your wheels… I can’t wait to preorder as soon as they are available. Keep up the good work and keep us all updated!

“I understand. We are on par with the other aero clincher wheels on the market but we cannot compete with tubular wheels . If you need super light weight wheels, clincher aero wheels won’t work for you.”