Flailing and sinking. What am I doing wrong? (video)

Triathlon Forum
1

I know I’m opening myself up to all kinds of abuse, but I thought maybe the knowledgable folks here might help me. I’ve come to triathlon later in life than most. And with basically no swim background whatsoever. So I’ve been working on trying to become a better swimmer for a couple of years now and have increased my endurance but can’t seem to get faster. I know I need help with technique. Next step is to get some coaching. Anyway, I thought I’d post this video and see if there was anything obvious that someone might see. I’m not looking to do any IM’s anytime soon. Just OLY and maybe HIM before I’m 80. I’ve done a handfull of sprints(BOP, but not last in my AG to t1) and would be happy to be MOP(and fresh) out of the water.

take a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9JakZsNJWk

youtube video quality is poor.

2

Just some observations for an average swimmer.

It looks like you have a weak pull but I can’t tell you why. Like when you pull, you aren’t going anywhere. Also, your shorts is probably causing alot of drag as they don’t look like jammers but normal swimming trunks.

3

I can’t really tell from the video… but it looks like you are pulling with your arm straight…or more straight than bent…think about pulling with your elbow bent and your forearm parrallel to the bottom of the pool (or as close to this as you can get)…think of it as climbing a rope and pulling yourself along the bottom of the pool

You might want to have someone videotape you underwater if possible.

4

Hard to see much from above and the video is shaky… also, it’s much easier to explain and describe this shit in person, but here goes…
Observations:
1- You are dropping your elbows at the start of your pull. You need to drop your fingertips, then begin the pull by rotating your forearm and hand down and keeping your elbow up - AND keeping your fingers pointing down. Imagine that you are reaching over a slightly submerged barrel, or climbing a submerged pole that has tiny steps on either side.

2- You seem to be initiating your stroke from the shoulder, whereas it should initiate from the hip, just like swinging a baseball bat or golf club. It’s the rotation or “hip drive” that gives you power.

3- Your hand should be vertical throughout the stroke. Yours is an extension of your arm and so points forward at the beginning and points back at the end. Your hand is only pressing directly against the water when your arm is pointed straight down (which it shouldn’t be).
When you start your stroke, the idea is to get your forearm vertical in the water, and then pull it straight back (remaining vertical) until the shoulder has rotated far enough that your elbow is near the bottom of your ribcage. Then use your triceps to extend the arm, pressing water towards your feet (vertical hand). This means extending your wrist at the end of the stroke. Just pretend that you put your hand on a vertical shelf or step, and imagine that you are pressing against that shelf. Your hand would remain vertical, wouldn’t it?
At the end of your stroke, if your wrist is flexed, you can’t bend your elbow to lift it out of the water. The result is a very wide recovery. If you press into the heel of your hand (pushing the water towards your feet) your wrist is extended and you can easily lift your elbow for a more efficient recovery.

4- On recovery, you seem to be letting your hand “lead.” Better to recover by focusing on your elbows. Throw your elbow up and forward and let your forearm and hand go limp, almost as if your hand was attached to your elbow by a piece of rope and you’re trying to toss it forward.

5- Hard to tell, but it looks like you are kicking UP with your left foot when your left arm is extending. This reduces the torque force (propulsive force) that should impart power to the stroke. As I said earlier, start the stroke by rotating the hips, or “driving” the hip (and leg and foot and shoulder) down.

5- When you breathe, you need to be cognizant of the path your arm is taking. First of all, delay the start of your stroke until you get your face back in the water. What I do to assist with this is to push my hand/rotate my shoulder outward so that as I turn to breathe, my front arm stays in front of or just outside of the line of my shoulder. You’re turning your body and letting that shoulder rotate under you and then the stroke swings across your body.

If you ever get to the SF Bay Area, look me up and I’ll make a first class swimmer out of you. First thing to do is to lose the baggy “drag” suit!! If you’re going to be a swimmer, dress like one. Jammers, tri shorts or bun-huggers. But only wear the bun-huggers if your ass is tight.

5

think about pulling with your elbow bent and your forearm parrallel to the bottom of the pool (or as close to this as you can get)…think of it as climbing a rope and pulling yourself along the bottom of the pool

You might want to have someone videotape you underwater if possible.
You said “forearm parrallel to the bottom of the pool” did you mean the upper arm? I’m working on getting someone to videotape me underwater. Thanks for your analysis!

6

I’ll comment on the other end of your stroke. You look like you are kicking from the knee down and not hip. Kick from your hip and use the muscles in your upper leg. Also stretch those ankles. Your kick also looks like it is not in sync with the rest of your stroke. You want your kick to help initiate your roll and it looks like it’s hindering your roll. Get some jammers!!!

7

Not a swim coach, and I probably look the same, but (and it’s hard to tell from this video) but I’d guess that your legs are hnaging low in the water. They also appear to be ‘all over the place’ creating extra drag. And your elbow is low. Instead of bending the forearm toward the bottom of the pool, it appears to bend the other way, so that you lose your grip on the water.

Get your feet closer and kick ‘smaller’
Get your head down more
Press your chest into the water as you reach forward
Get your hand pointed at the botom while it’s still above your eyes.

Now all the coaches will completely disagree, but I thought I’d give it a whirl.
See the disclaimer below.

8

“You said “forearm parrallel to the bottom of the pool” did you mean the upper arm?”

I’m virtually certain he meant forearm PERPENDICULAR to the bottom of the pool.

9

“Imagine that you are reaching over a slightly submerged barrel, or climbing a submerged pole that has tiny steps on either side.” I tried this today and had my fastest/easiest swim in a long time…thank you!

I tried this today and had my fastest/easiest swim in a long time…thank you!

10

my comments are similar to others. Your pull is weak.

Think high elbows at the catch and pulling with your forearms, not just your hand. The swimming over a barrel analogy is a good one. Try doing some fist drills (swim with a closed fist) to help focus on using your forearms. I like to swim alternate laps, one fist swimming, one normal to help focus on my catch and an effective pull.

Also, try DougStern’s sewing machine drill (do a search…the description is too long for me to retype)…it will help reinforce high elbows during the recovery and encourage a bit more body roll.

and lose the boardshorts. Unless you’re at the beach, wear a speedo or some jammers. :slight_smile:

11

You’re welcome. The trick is not to treat the water differently because it’s liquid. Pretend you’re swimming through extremely thick mud, so thick that you can actually grab hold of it.

12

I think you/he meant to say “think about pulling with your elbow bent and your forearm perpendicular to the bottom of the pool”, i.e., with the hand pointing down at the bottom.

Seth

13

This is great stuff! After taking and watching that video, I was getting a bit discouraged. Plus I keep reading these posts where someone says, “I’m a slow swimmer(1:30/100)”! While I toil away at 2:30/100. I’ve come a long way but have even farther to go. But now I have some definate things to work on/think about. Can’t wait to get in the pool tonight. I’ll test some of the advise given here and try and report back what seems to make the most difference. Thanks to everyone who responded on this one. If I ever get anywhere near SF, I’ll definately look up Cousin E! and the jammers are on order.

“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.”

  • Thomas Paine
14

Your arm should create a reverse “S” during the pull
Once your arm hits the water you palm should start out
This is the start of the catch
Next press down and in to the midline of your body
Now press down your body towards your belly button
Finish the stroke out the side of your body towards the pocket of your
fancy swim trunks!
You can practice by standing in front of a door frame with one arm overhead roughly centered…press out to the corner of the door and draw a reverse 'S" as you pull.

Spending a few $'s on a good coach with 2-3 drills where you emphasize your shoulder roll and single arm pull will be really helpfull

Andrew

15

The ‘S,’ which so many of us were taught, is really a function of the trunk rotation. The ‘sculling’ doesn’t produce propulsion. It’s no longer politically correct.

16

Is that “real time” or slow motion? Not taking anything away from you, but if it is real time, then your stroke rate seems low and your stroke length is really short (I counted ~ 32 strokes per length, but you can likely get down to 28 easy with some proper swim clothing). Its like you are biking at a slow cadence in a low gear. Ideally, you can get into a higher gear (longer stroke) at a higher cadence (stroke rate)

You seem be lifting your head and entire body out of the water when you breath on the left. I know I do the same myself. One arm drills breathing on the side opposite your working arm with arm full extended really has helped for me.

Aside from that, do what the others have said.

I’d say your stroke actually looks prettier than lots of dudes who can hold 1:30 per 100m. If you can just keep the same stroke and increase your stroke rate, you’ll get oxygen more often and go faster, and I suspect you’ll spend less time “gliding and going knowhere” and spend more time in a propulsive position in your stroke!

17

As a drill it will produce the rotation needed to activate your lats and create power.

Long term a reverse “S” is not your stoke but a means to a better stroke

Overall better form will create the force instead of just dragging the arm through the water in the video and not moving enough water

18

triblaq,

Thanks for posting the link to the video. Only complete jerks will give you crap about your swimming. You look fine, especially for someone who has come to swimming late in life.

The answer is simple, and you already mentioned it. Get a good coach and plan to visit her or him for several months as regularly as possible. Trying to fix technique on your own is very, very difficult. Better to have someone on deck who is trained and can give you continuous feedback. Best of luck! Report back if you get a coach and let us know how it goes.

19

Ha… That’s real time! Now you see why I was getting discouraged, my photographer(who only see’s me running and never see’s me swim) and my 12 year expert swimmer daughter both asked why I was going so slow. Plus real old dude in the next lane was lapping me every few minutes.

Can you explain that one arm drill in more detail?

20

you need Doug Stern.