FIST economics

Dan,

For me to do that, you would have to cover the costs of my “big” race on July 6th ($250 CDN), + the additional pains of sucking @$$ in that race as well. (Probably a new set of zipps or hed’s or something along those lines (dont know exact $$$ figures)

I most likely wouldnt do it, unless there was a really really lucrative benefit. I have my first 1/2IM on July 6th (been doing sprints up till now) and i think i need to spend a lot of time on the bike in order to do well.

Im hoping to put 6+ hours until the end of april after the snow melts, then somewhere around 8-9 after i get back west and school is finished (end of april), and am trying to get 2-4 on the trainer right now (school makes things a little tougher).

Would i voluntarily stay off my bike… possibly, very unlikely, but possibly. If i spent the time running it might work, but there would have to be a real benefit to not train for that long on the bike.

Hope this helps,

-Kevin

well, here’s what i’m getting at. when i press people on this issue, it’s remarkable what a high price they put on their riding time. they usually say, “i wouldn’t do that deal. there’s no price.” then i say, “how about a hundred thousand dollars?” they reply, “well, yeah, in that case, perhaps.” to which i reply, “okay then, it’s more than a thousand dollars, and less than a hundred thousand.”

two months, that’s usually worth about $20,000 on average (i’ve asked a lot of people this question). it seems like a lot of money. but then staying off the bike for two critical months is a very big sacrifice.

then you take the hours on the bike, say 30 hours a month, 60 hours total, divide it up, that’s more than $300/hr. “actually,” you might say, “i’d do that deal for $5000.” okay, then it’s $80/hr. either way, the price a person puts on his bike riding hours is very expensive, and it’s always a HELLUVA lot more than the price someone puts on what he’s willing to pay, per hour, to have himself fit properly on his bike.

personally, i put a VERY high premium on what my bike riding time is worth to me. that’s why i’m willing to spend what it takes to have the right equipment under me, and by “right equipment” i’m almost NEVER talking about performance-based stuff, but comfort-based stuff. power and fitness equal, performance is measured by how much time you’ll spend in a good aero position, and the right saddle, right cycling shorts, right aero bars, is key to that for me.

also key to that would be the position i’m riding in. before it was my business, i spent an AWFUL lot of time working on my position because it was so key to my misery index while on the bike.

i go thru this exercise with people to get them to remember why it is this is of interest to them. if i was to ask them about the price they put on a good fit 50 miles into a 70-mile ride on their tri bikes, the price is very high. when i ask them that question off the bike, as they’re typing on their computers, all of a sudden the price goes down a bunch.

Man I couldn’t figure out where you were going with this until you said how much would it cost, good one. I have to apply this to my field of work.

you could ask the same question about anything…
why didnt you spend the $xxxxx on a new car when your old one breaks down, etc

What i was trying to say in my last post, is that it is a hell of a lot of money to pay for a fit for an amateur athlete, esp. one who is MOP, or is on older equipment.

If i am riding a $500 CDN bike, and am new to the sport, or if i have a wife, 2 kids, a car with payments and a mortgage, $200 is a lot for me to spend in comparison to the other things in life for a bike fitting, when it could be achieved for cheaper.

By raising the prices so high, it doesnt encourage growth in the sport. You tell me this…what makes more money 20 fits at $50 a pop or 2 fits @ $200 each? I can almost guarntee you that if the price is lower and more reasonable, more people will stop bitching about paying for it and actually go and get it done.

Also, Dan, when you say that you are trying to put the best under you in terms of bike, etc. you are a kick ass athlete who HAS been at the top. Most of us havent, and will never get there. Its a little different in our shoes than in yours.

-Kevin

P.S. The difference a good fit makes might only be a 1 or 2 minute difference on your TT/Split time. Then you are looking at $200/minute…which is a lot more that the fit it worth!

Dan, use this analogy. I’m not going to pay anyone for a bike fitting any more than I’m willing to pay the plumber for a job if I feel capable of doing it myself. If I can’t do the job myself I’m not willing to pay a plumber $350. when the other plumber will do it for $100. The expensive plumber can rant all he wants about him being the better plumber, but if in the end the leaky pipe is fixed by either guy, the end result is the same, so why pay for the more expensive plumber even if he claims his wrenching technique is better than the other guy’s. If the expensive plumber wants me to pay more than the less expensive one, then he’s going to have demonstrate to me beyond doubt that his END RESULT is somehow a lot better than that of the cheaper plumber in order to justify his higher fee. One lesson I have learned in life is that paying more for something doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a better end result. Sometimes it does,but often it doesn’t.

Are you sort of getting the analogy?

BTW, I tend to do my own plumbing and bike fitting.

“The difference a good fit makes might only be a 1 or 2 minute difference on your TT/Split time”

if this is what a good fit means to you then you ought not to spend your money on a fit. there are a LOT of people who abandon riding their tri bikes altogether because they can’t ride them AT ALL without a fair amount of discomfort. THESE are the people that need to spend their money on a good fit. you probably aren’t a candidate for that.

i’m going to take another crack at writing about what a good fit entails, and i’ll have it up on slowtwitch within days, and maybe that will help narrow this discussion to particulars.

Cerveloguy,

            I don't think anyone is suggesting that we have to go to a bike fitter to get a job done.  As with anything in life, it's a "do at your own risk" kind of thing.  What Dan is suggesting, as I interpret it, is that if you go to a well established bike fitter, you ought to pay x amount of dollars, where he says $350 for someone qualified to his standards.  What he is saying has nothing to do with whether or not we do it ourselves.  Obviously there are people who would do it themselves, either by necessity (no money) or by desire.  He facilitates this very idea by the information he puts on this site for bike fit.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t understand the point of your post other than as an opportunity to AGAIN state that you feel confident in your own bike fit capabilities. BTW, we all know that you do your own bike fitting and plumbing, as you have posted this several times already :).

I apologize if it seemed as if I was blowing my own horn. That wasn’t my intent. There is no reason why a pro bike fitter shouldn’t charge $350. if that is what he/she genuinely believes this is what their service is worth. But that might be a hard sell if the guy down the street at the other LBS has a good reputation in the area and only charges $100.

I like the idea of the FIST certification, and appreciate the quality of people involved behind the course, but that alone is not likely enough to convince most people to pay the extra $250. over the other guy. Of course it’s supply/demand and much of this is regional. Wages/prices are quite variable depending upon where you live. A house in Silicon Valley would cost 10 x what I’d pay for the same here in the boonies, so I should expect the same with other services including bike fitters.

Ditto what cerveloguy said… It not just about additional speed… Fit is also about comfort. And for some, it’s about being able to ride at all.

How much that is worth? It could be much more than 200,300 or even 400 dollars or (to others) much less. The value of a good fit is relative. It is a “experienced based” process defined in subjective values and less in quantifiable/objective values. In fact, it economic value is ultimately determined by the concept of “supply and demand”.

I think FIST is but one attempt to increase demand by placing value in definitive terms. While supply of services is still defined (in the most part) by bits and pieces of various approaches to fitting methods - some good, some bad.

Those who have the most experience also have their nitch market. The will see no advantage to standardize the system…why should they? Theirs is proven method. Those who wish to improve their stature in the bike fitting business may see this a way to define their business on equal terms as those whom have years more experience and a large client base. In the long run, some standardization can help a service based industry. Unfortunately, standardization is not always achievable. And, the main reason for failure is lack of concensus or funding to promote the standardized method.

FWIW Joe Moya