Fishies - how to train for 4.4 mile Chessie Bay Swim?

Triathlon Forum
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Good morning, Slowtwitch! For the first time in my life, I won the lottery! Only this one doesn’t give me $$, it makes me pay $$ – for the Grand Chesapeake Bay Swim, to be precise.

This will be my first one, I just want to finish (well-ish). I’m curious as to training advice regarding frequency and volume of swims - and the mix between focusing on distance or technique. I swim 3 times/week, right now (3000-4000 yds) but will still be doing biking/running/strength. I’m not fast (1:55/100 yds), but I’m like the Energizer Bunny and can keep going and going and going … I’ll also have the opportunity for open water swims once-twice/week in the month before the GCBS.

Would appreciate any guidance/feedback. thanks!

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I’d swim 5 or 6 times per week.

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the ****Great Chesapeake Bay Swim, to be precise.
FTFY.

Congrats on your lottery win! GCBS is a great event.

Before we get too deep into training advice; a couple of questions for you;
-What is your swim background?
-How comfortable are you in open water?
-When you say (3000-4000 yds) is that per swim? or per week?
-Do you have major races/events around the bay swim?

General training advice:
3 swims/week is a good starting point; I would build to 4 or 5 swims/week as you get closer.
I would build your workouts to 6500-7000m with some long (1+ hr) continuous swims throw in
If you can get open water swims in, great.
If you don’t have other important races close to the bay swim, I would pull back (slighty) on you bike/run to give you more time to get swims in.

See you on the beach

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@ mhepp … thanks for the feedback.

-What is your swim background?
I’ve been swimming recreationally ever since I was a kid. I’m not really built like a swimmer (short torso, long legs), and I don’t think I’ll ever get much faster, but I’m steady.

-How comfortable are you in open water?
Very. Regardless of whether a swim is wetsuit-legal or not.

-When you say (3000-4000 yds) is that per swim? or per week?
I swim about 3000 yards twice/week (usually some combo of technique and endurance drills) and 4000 yrs once/week straight through. All in a pool.

-Do you have major races/events around the bay swim?
I have a half marathon in mid-March that I’m taking semi-seriously. Then, I’m pretty open until the GCBS. I have two Olys in May, but those are ‘C-type’ fun races.

Any thoughts on how to split workouts between just adding yardage vs doing technique drills?

thanks again, I’m really looking forward to this!

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While not being familiar with the swim or the conditions but based on your current training and background, I reckon you could swim 4.4 miles of open water next weekend if you had to.

With a couple of swims of about 6 km/4 miles under your belt you should be able to approach an event of this distance with a reasonable degree of confidence even without increasing your current swim training.

Of course like any endurance event, a larger training volume/frequency usually equals a better performance for all but the elite.

The distance and time you will be out there also means that you might want to consider some form of nutrition. Yes, you could tough it out, but your performance would likely benefit from supplementing those glycogen supplies at some point.

As someone who regards swimming as the weakest of their disciplines, I have always found it a small shift from being able to comfortably handle 4 km to completing 8 to 10 km with minimal difficulty.

Go for it and have fun.

(Please bear in mind that my comments are general, and I know nothing about the event’s water temp, tides, currents, specific conditions or other variables).

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I also think you could complete the swim next week if you tried. But 1:55 per 100 is pretty slow - are you working with a coach at all? Or a Masters group? If you’re only interested in completing the swim then feel free to continue doing as you’re doing, but if you want to swim faster, I would recommend working on your technique. Also try to join a Masters group - it helps to have people pushing you.

I do a lot of open water races in the summer and have always found it tremendously helpful to use a bunch of B-races to train for my A-race. There really is no substitute for swimming long distances continuously in open water conditions - it’s just different than doing long swims in the pool (no turns, for one thing - the shoulder fatigue is very real). Plus the conditions are of course very different. Try Ray’s Open Water site for a list of all the open water swims offered nationwide in the U.S.

Sorting out your nutrition plan is a good idea. You will probably need something since you’ll be out there for several hours.

Good luck with the swim!

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Congratulations on the lottery win! That’s a great event.

I did the race in '95 and '96. I came from a swimming background, so I just applied that training to the race prep.

You need to prepare for a few things that you won’t be able to replicate in the pool. Just be mentally ready for these. First, you’ll have to drive east across the Bay to park at the finish area. Prepare for the sight of all that water. You’ll see it going back west on the shutttle bus to the start. Prepare to know which way the tide is going that day, and adjust. If the tide is going out, swim on the north side so you won’t get swept out. If the tide is going out, you will have to swim northwards to fight the tide, and the other way around. The current can be as fast as 1.5 to 2 fps.

Swim long practice sessions. Plan on days where you’ll go 5000 or more straight, but, to replicate race conditions, throw in random fast 25s at least once every 400.

DO CORE WORK! Your back will hurt if you keep it arched in the freestyle posture for 2.5 hours without a flip turn or wall.

The last 100 meters into Hemingway’s is sandy and only about 1m deep.

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I did that swim in 2014. Conditions (tide, currents, etc.) vary from year to year. But it’s a relatively straightforward swim, point to point, between the bridges, so sighting is not much of a problem. I’m guessing you’ll be wearing a wetsuit.

Non-swimming background, with the simple goal of just ending well, and here’s what I found that might be helpful:

  • I contemplated not wearing a wetsuit, but since my goal was just to finish well, I did, and was very glad I did. You’ll be in the water for 2.5 hours, give or take, so make sure you’re comfortable in your wetsuit, apply bodyglide, etc.

  • They have feeding stations, but unless things have changed, they weren’t easy to spot until it was too late. Have a gel or two on you, just in case.

  • I was swimming 3-5 times a week (avg. 2500-3000 per session) including one long session a week of about 6000-7000 - not continuously, broken down in 5x(10x100, 10 secs rest, etc.) Whichever way you decide to do it, just get a long swim in once a week. If you start building a weekly longer swim now that will give you several months to build it up.It’ll be good physically and psychologically.

  • I did that program for about two months. The long session was key. Looking back, I wish I would have done more of those. I finished comfortably, middle of the pack, but more long sessions would have helped.

  • I couldn’t do any open water practices in advance, but it would have been very helpful. If you can, go down to Sandy Point once the weather gets nicer and get some practices in.

Good luck and I hope the swim goes well. It’s a great experience.

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forever - train forever. It sounds miserable and I’m a swimmer.

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Thank you all very much for the constructive feedback. I really appreciate it. I’ll start working on nutrition once I start swimming longer, and yes, I definitely plan on doing core work. Thanks again!

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The Kraut wrote:
Any thoughts on how to split workouts between just adding yardage vs doing technique drills?

As other have said, it sounds like you are well positioned to have a great race.

My two cents on adding yardage/drills:

  • As your workouts get longer I would keep your warm up and/or drill set(s) the same (or maybe a little longer) and build the majority of your volume in your main set(s)
  • When you add that 4th or 5th (or 6th) swim per week, that could be a good opportunity to build in more technique work.Maybe your 4th swim becomes a technique (or active recovery) focused day. Still getting some work in but more focused on technique.
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Figure out how long it will take you to do it. Then train for that via swimming the same amount of time and efforts you would train for a running race that would take you the same amount of time to finish. Don’t overthink it.

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I would stuff a gel pack under your cap. At 1:55/100, you’ll be out there for a really long time. It’d be hard to get hydration in but you don’t want to crash 2/3rd into it.

The current volume of 10K a week seems like a solid base to be ready. If you had said 2-5K total, I’d call you crazy.

Best of luck!

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If you are local to the DC metro area, consider the Jim McDonnell Lake Swim events on Sat & Sun of Memorial Day Weekend as Saturday is a 1 mile practice swim, and Sunday is a 1 mile race followed by a 2 mile race. You can do all three and get 4 miles open water experience over 2 days in a well put on event.

Also, I’d suggest reaching out to Kevin in Md on this forum for swim training, event strategy and nutritional advice. He’s a triathlon coach, masters swim coach and a pretty darn good swimmer himself, with experience from 50scy masters swim events up to at least 10 mile open water races, and he’s raced the bay swim multiple times as well.

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Hello Fishies … I’m back, post-GCBS :). I did it and thought I’d share a few thoughts post-race. Bottom line: All the advice you gave me was spot-on.

I upped swimming volume and frequency in the the 2-3 months leading up to the race, adding technique and speed work early on, then adding volume, culminating in one 8,000 yd swim in the pool and several 6,000 and 7,000 yard swims. I got my 100 yd time to 1:51. I also got in about half a dozen OWS, some as part of triathlons, a few National Harbor swims in DC, and back-to-back 1 and 2 mile swims at the JMLS two weeks ago. I tried different wet suits and googles before finding what would remain comfortable for such a long swim. Bottom line, while I’m no fish, I felt well-prepared. Race week prep was sub-optimal and pretty high stress due to work stuff, but other than that I felt sufficiently rested and ready to go.

The race starts about 500 yards north of the bridge spans at Sandy Point and once the gun goes off, you kinda swim diagonally towards the entry point for underneath the bridge spans marked by two rainbow buoys. From there, it’s a left turn into the channel, and you follow the bridge span for a wide sweeping leftish turn. The current was basically non-existent, no wind, water temps in the low 70s. Once the bridge completes it left swing (In all the years I’ve driven over the bridge, I’ve never paid much attention to its shape, but I googled tons of pics of it to prepare for this!), you are basically in your own personal swimming pool w/ a lane to yourself (I’m still slow, so barely anyone around me), and you just go straight down the middle … It’s really beautiful, and you don’t have to worry about sighting, because you keep the the bridge pillars in view while breathing and can make sure you’re on track. Orange buoy markers for each mile, nutrition boats at mile 2 and 3, and all you gotta do is swim … Water started getting choppy the last 1/2-3/4 mile or so in the channel. I don’t know how it compares to previous years, but I definitely struggled with getting thrown around a bit and was getting tired. I probably veered a bit too far south and came close once or twice to being swept south outside the bridge span. Fortunately, was able to correct, but it was getting tough. Plus, one thing I never thought about or expected: I could feel myself getting a bit nauseous from all that tossing around (should I have taken a dramamine before?) … Shortly after mile 4, you come up to a yellow buoy indicating it’s time to turn right underneath the bridge span, then you turn left and head straight for shore … another 500-700 yards or so. It’s pretty flat there and I saw several people walking the last 300 yards or so in. Boy, was I tired at that point! But, and I forget who advised me to do strength work for core/lower back: That was great advice, I never had any issues w/ my back, and that’s saying something!

So, I made it, picked up my t-shirt, got showered off by the fire fighters and was off. All in all, a truly great experience, even though my final time was well slower than what I thought I could do. My Garmin is all screwed up (claims I only swam 7000 yds), so I don’t know where I lost so much time, but I bet the last mile did me in, even though I paced myself early. You can only simulate so much in a 25-yard swimming pool…

Thanks again for all the advice, this was pretty epic for me. I won’t rule out another attempt at some point, but I drastically cut back on running and biking the past few months and really miss it!

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Kraut - Congrats on finishing this epic swim!!! Did your total time translate to roughly 9000 yd in the 25-yd pool, or 10,000??? IOW, if you swam for the same time in the pool, how many yards would you have covered???

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@ericmulk. Well, the numbers have me all confused:

On 5/21, I swam 8,000 yds in the pool in 2:31, i.e. 1:53/100 yds - non-wetsuit, non-tapered, the day after an Oly tri.

On 5/25, I swam 2 miles OWS - w/ wetsuit, a bit of wind, some chop in 1:08, i.e. 1:57/100 yds.

On 5/28, I swam back to back 1 mile and 2 mile OWS in a lake - w/ wetsuit, zero wind, zero current, zero waves, average 1:44 and 1:46/100 yds, respectively.

At GCBS, I swam 3:06, which I believe is 2:10/100 yds - w/ wetsuit, zero current at the beginning, definitely a lot (that’s what it felt like for me) of current and chop on last 1+ mile. My Garmin crapped out right as I made the right-hand turn out from between the pylons and said I stopped in the middle of the water, essentially .4 miles short.

If I translate the 5/25 swim to 3:06, I should have swam about 5.5 miles – I doubt the waves pushed me around for an extra 1.1 miles, and I know I wasn’t zig-zagging a lot - my sighting was spot-on, and the Garmin map shows me moving along dead-center between the pylons (except when swam to the fuel boat at mile 3, but that couldn’t haven taken more than 1-2 minutes overall). The only conclusion I can draw from all this is that while I have become a stronger pool swimmer (and I really do enjoy it!), I can’t translate this to the outside as soon as the elements pick up … I’ve worked a lot on endurance and upper body/core strength, but it doesn’t seem to be enough. I know I was lucky w/ the weather conditions yesterday. I think if the currents had been much stronger, I would not have made the time cut-off. That’s a bit frustrating. I don’t like starting a race fearing I’m going to be pulled from the course at any time … that’s what’s holding me back from thinking ‘next time…’!

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You and I only make an N of 2 but my experience with Chessie is quite similar in that I swim slower in the bay than in the pool or McDonnell.

I didn’t do it this year but typically they start the race near the end of flood tide. So you’re swimming against the current for that first leg to the bridge. Then you’re in that blessed bit of slack tide for a while before the ebb tide starts pushing you hard from the left. While it’s true that you’re in a wetsuit and it’s not hard to sight, there are other factors that slow you down. One is the natural tendency for first-time swimmers to hold back on pace in order to make absolutely sure not to tire too much. My experience also is that the detour and stop at the feed boat at mile 3 takes more time than you’d think. Then at the end, when you’re most tired, you have to swim hard against a current that tries to push you under the bridge. Plus you’re doing that while fighting nausea. You’re going to go slower than normal. Finally, some people also lose a lot of time walking that last bit, though it sounds like you swam it in.

So overall I wouldn’t obsess too much with your time. You did great and it’s a terrific accomplishment.

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On 5/21, I swam 8,000 yds in the pool in 2:31, i.e. 1:53/100 yds - non-wetsuit, non-tapered, the day after an Oly tri.

On 5/25, I swam 2 miles OWS - w/ wetsuit, a bit of wind, some chop in 1:08, i.e. 1:57/100 yds.

On 5/28, I swam back to back 1 mile and 2 mile OWS in a lake - w/ wetsuit, zero wind, zero current, zero waves, average 1:44 and 1:46/100 yds, respectively.

At GCBS, I swam 3:06, which I believe is 2:10/100 yds - w/ wetsuit, zero current at the beginning,

If I translate the 5/25 swim to 3:06, I should have swam about 5.5 miles –

I think if the currents had been much stronger, I would not have made the time cut-off.

Yesterday was my 17th finish, and I had four athletes there as well.

First, congratulations - it wasn’t easy, it’s never easy matter of fact.

There things you need to know about open water in general and the Bay Swim in particular.

General:

  1. Unless you are swimming quite close to a fixed object it is pretty much impossible to determine if there is current and where it is going. In the same way that you have no sense that the earth is rotating around the sun and we are hurtling through space at mind-blowing speed, you have no sense that the entire bay or ocean you are swimming in is moving northward at 1 mph.You don’t experience it much in triathlon, but in open water swimming it happens more often. My personal most extreme example is floating on my back having some discomfort in a swim in New York Harbor and the garmin shows we were doing 30 minute miles. But out in the middle there is no sense of that at all.

There are a few unique things about the Bay Swim:

  1. Chuck the race director says some things to please the crowd. this year he did get the direction of the current correct, but his comment about the current being low was incorrect. The full moon was Friday, so we were swimming in a spring tide. The tidal index, which is the %ile of how big the swings in tide height are for a given location was 91 or 92 yesterday. The current was quite strong.

I know in my own case when we were near the main shipping channel, I had to turn to the right quite a bit to stay in the middle. I was also trying to draft off of someone, and it was like drafting in a cross wind on the bike, had to stay off to the side.

  1. The curve of the bay bridge is much bigger than it seems when you are in it. Once you are in between the spans, you still have to swim to the south (upstream in this case) for quite a ways. Then, once you are in the straightaway, you still need to maintain yourself inside the spans. This is a unique challenge, in most tidal swims you just time it so that the tide pushes or pulls you wherever and you keep swimming across the tide. Not so at the Bay Swim since you have to stay in that relatively small spot.

  2. The Bay Swim also presents a nutritional challenge. Most folks forget to pack something to eat after you take the bus over. But at over 2 hours long, you really do need something to eat and probably some calories during the swim as well.

All in all, I am not all that surprised by your time.

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@ericmulk. Well, the numbers have me all confused:

On 5/21, I swam 8,000 yds in the pool in 2:31, i.e. 1:53/100 yds - non-wetsuit, non-tapered, the day after an Oly tri.
On 5/25, I swam 2 miles OWS - w/ wetsuit, a bit of wind, some chop in 1:08, i.e. 1:57/100 yds.
On 5/28, I swam back to back 1 mile and 2 mile OWS in a lake - w/ wetsuit, zero wind, zero current, zero waves, average 1:44 and 1:46/100 yds, respectively.
At GCBS, I swam 3:06, which I believe is 2:10/100 yds - w/ wetsuit, zero current at the beginning, definitely a lot (that’s what it felt like for me) of current and chop on last 1+ mile. My Garmin crapped out right as I made the right-hand turn out from between the pylons and said I stopped in the middle of the water, essentially .4 miles short.
If I translate the 5/25 swim to 3:06, I should have swam about 5.5 miles – I doubt the waves pushed me around for an extra 1.1 miles, and I know I wasn’t zig-zagging a lot - my sighting was spot-on, and the Garmin map shows me moving along dead-center between the pylons (except when swam to the fuel boat at mile 3, but that couldn’t haven taken more than 1-2 minutes overall). The only conclusion I can draw from all this is that while I have become a stronger pool swimmer (and I really do enjoy it!), I can’t translate this to the outside as soon as the elements pick up … I’ve worked a lot on endurance and upper body/core strength, but it doesn’t seem to be enough. I know I was lucky w/ the weather conditions yesterday. I think if the currents had been much stronger, I would not have made the time cut-off. That’s a bit frustrating. I don’t like starting a race fearing I’m going to be pulled from the course at any time … that’s what’s holding me back from thinking ‘next time…’!

Well, the numbers do look a bit confusing. I think I would use your wetsuit OW pace of about 1:45/100 though, which would imply swimming about 6 miles!!! In any case, good job!!! Kevin in MD obviously has huge experience with this event so his comments carry much more weight than mine. :slight_smile: