This past weekend, I raced my first 70.3, Troika Long Course Triathlon in WA. I’ve been following Friel’s YBT Ironman plan with my A-race as IMCDA. I was ending a three-week block of training, and I didn’t taper (took the day before easy). My times were:
Swim 26:46
(Everyone said it was shorter than 1.2 mi, so let’s say 1:36 per 100m)
Bike 2:24:35
23.5 mph
AP 225 watts
NP 228 watts
IF 83.9% (FTP 272)
Run 1:31:24
6:55m/m
Based on these results, are the following target paces possible for IMCDA?
Swim 1:04
1:40 per 100m
Bike 5:15
NP 185 watts
IF 68% (FTP 272)
Run 3:16
7:30m/m
Currently for training:
I am swimming 1:44 per 100m for my long swim pace - zone 2. 1:35 pace for a cruise 6x400 workout.
For my long ride, holding 185 watts for 5 hrs. I’ve been fading after 4:45 though.
For my long run, running for 2:45 @ 8:00m/m. I don’t feel like I need to run longer than this.
My approach would be to increase my training pace to these target goals. Is all of this realistic? Should I be more aggressive?
3:16 will be very hard, other times seem about right on.
+1 on this.
Running a Marathon after 5+ hrs on the bike is a very different story than running a HM after 2.5hrs of biking. The bike-pacing plan seems sensible (ie targeting under 0.7 IF) - if this leads to a 5:05 bike of 5:25 should be disrearded (I say this becuase in the 1 IM I have done, it was VERY temping to up the intensity on the bike because the watts I were putting out did not yield the speed i wanted, due to high winds)
Open-running times could also be usefull as a guide. With a 1:31 half marathon you are perhaps able to spit out a 1:25 open, or full marathon just over 3 hrs (3-3:10)? If so I would aim for a 3:30 IM run, even if it will be very temping to run the first 20k faster.
Check out the results from 70.3 vs full IM’s. Alot more people are able to run 1:30 in a HIM, opposed to running 3:30 in a full. Im definitley no expert, but I would say a 3:16 is exceptional for an AG - especially a first-time AG’er! Opening with the aim to run 3:16 could lead to a serious bonk. I think the back part of the marathon will be hard enough even if you go the first half at 3:30-pace. If there is anything left in the tank after 25-30k feel free to speed up!
I’ve done 2 70.3 “B” races the last 2 years. In both cases, the swim was no different or not enough to tell. Actually in one case, it was the best swim I’ve ever had in 70.3, probably because I had no aspirations, goals, just relaxed and swam. The bike I was off maybe 5-10 watts at most. The run I ran about 4-6 minutes slower.
I’d say 3:20-3:25 run (unless you were to lose weight) or if you over biked in the 70.3. ~195-210 Watts should be your target. You clearly swim well, so a 57:00-59:00 should be a nice relaxed swim for you if that was an accurate 70.3 course.
FWIM - You’ll be on the bubble to KQ I’d guess. Bike and run are just a notch off the top elite amateurs, but close. Focus on execution, not going fast. Target a pace that gives you a high probability of performing within a 5-10 minute window. IF you “go for it”, you risk going 30-60 minuets slower to go 5 minutes faster. If that makes sense.
Run 3:16
7:30m/m
To back up what the others have said, my typical 70.3 run is around 1:25 to 1:26, and my best IM run was 3:19, so your 3:16 might be a stretch. However during that IM, I biked 10 more watts than you did (same FTP coincidentally)
Currently for training:
For my long ride, holding 185 watts for 5 hrs. I’ve been fading after 4:45 though.
For my long run, running for 2:45 @ 8:00m/m. I don’t feel like I need to run longer than this.
Should I be more aggressive?
I think your long ride/run should be faster than IM watts/pace (that’s what I did), but I’m also pretty sure I’m in the minority there. YMMV.
I’ve ran an open half 1:23 in the past, but I’ve never have raced a full marathon.
Based on everyone’s comments, I may target a 3:23 marathon. If I feel good by the second half, I’ll descend. This is all dependent if my nutrition works out and weather stays cool.
As for training, I will stick with my goal paces or under. Thanks for the tips guys.
I’ve ran an open half 1:23 in the past, but I’ve never have raced a full marathon.
Based on everyone’s comments, I may target a 3:23 marathon. If I feel good by the second half, I’ll descend. This is all dependent if my nutrition works out and weather stays cool.
As for training, I will stick with my goal paces or under. Thanks for the tips guys.
Sounds sensible!
Just to give you my experience with this - I’m nowhere near a good a runner as you, and I’ve only done 1 full IM. At the time my open half times were probably around 1:30, and my fastest standalone marathon was 3:22. I paced the swim and bike pretty good, and felt really good coming into the run. My goal was to go conservative for the first half - and I tried to gauge conservative by feel. My first K was still ran at 4:30/km! (which would be around 3:10-pace!). When my garmin beeped for the first k I luckily managed to dial way back and plodd away at 5:15/k for the next hour or so. I think this was a pretty wise desicion - I kept that pace until around the halfway point, and gradually slowed. I kept running all the time, but ended up with a 3:57 run, which I think was pretty ok for my fitness at the time. Probably could have pushed alot more mentally towards the end and come closer to a 3:50, but thats for next time. Had I kept running 4;30 k’s for the first 10k of the marathon I belive I would have been bonking hard at 15-20k, and would risk end up walking the last 20k.
So just crushed CDA 70.3. 6th overall amateur, 1st in my age group. Went 4:25:18
Swim 29:56
(1:33 per 100m)
Bike 2:25:16
23.1 mph
AP 220 watts
NP 229 watts
IF 81.2% (FTP 280)
Held back a bit more than my last race.
Run 1:25:10
6:30/mi
So with these results, I’m thinking I’ll slow up 5% on the swim and bike and maybe 10% on the run. Maybe even more on the run depending on the temperature. Here are my new target paces possible for IMCDA.
Swim 1:03
1:38 per 100m
Bike 5:05
NP 185 watts
IF 68% (FTP 280)
Run 3:16
7:30/mi
Is that too far of a stretch in times? I definitely feeling more confident. I have another three week block of training before my taper.
Nice work! If you were able to run a 1:25 off riding around 81% I think that 7:30ish pace is doable. However, I’d seriously recommend going out a bit more conservative though, and if your bike was paced correctly, it will feel too easy. If you can run 7:40-7:45 pace for the first 18-20 miles and still feel great, then hammer it at the end. A good IM run is easy to talk about, but very hard to execute.
My run fitness is around yours (1:20 open half), and I have yet to have a well executed IM run.
Agreed. My rule of thumb is to take your best (and most current) HIM run, double it and add 30 min. That’ll get you in the ballpark for an IM run time if the courses/temps are similar. You’ll be gambling w/ a total meltdown/death-march on the run if you aim much faster than that, especially on your first full Iron race.
I would suggest checking out Best Bike Split for your bike time projection. Unless you are small and/or very aero, that bike split looks a bit optimistic for that course based on my own projections with higher power in BBS.
68% is pretty conservative. You’d be leaving time on the table. 70-72% is probably better. But that depends on you training volume over the last 18-24 months.
185Watts probably won’t get you a 5:05 if it took 229W to go 2:25 on the same course. Have you plugged that into BBS?
I know you said you “crushed it”. But 81% is still a little conservative too and 2:25 is very good, but not crushing speed. Elite amateurs ride 82-87% depending on the course.
that being said, you executed very well. Very even splits across all 3. You have a good chance for a KQ. Don’t race too conservative, or you’re change might slip away, but don’t overcook it either. Good luck in your final weeks of training. Dont overdo it.
It’s like a good steak, better undercooked than overcooked.
So just crushed CDA 70.3. 6th overall amateur, 1st in my age group. Went 4:25:18
Swim 29:56
(1:33 per 100m)
Bike 2:25:16
23.1 mph
AP 220 watts
NP 229 watts
IF 81.2% (FTP 280)
Held back a bit more than my last race.
Run 1:25:10
6:30/mi
So with these results, I’m thinking I’ll slow up 5% on the swim and bike and maybe 10% on the run. Maybe even more on the run depending on the temperature. Here are my new target paces possible for IMCDA.
Swim 1:03
1:38 per 100m
Bike 5:05
NP 185 watts
IF 68% (FTP 280)
Run 3:16
7:30/mi
Is that too far of a stretch in times? I definitely feeling more confident. I have another three week block of training before my taper.
I definitely like your approach and analysis - clearly you are giving this a lot of thought. Personally I think you could run 3:15-3:25 off this race for the full, but given that it is your first you prob won’t. Your bike time is probably a little optimistic. Regardless, stay confident, but don’t underestimate the Ironman or the training for it. I have seen many people go into their first Ironmans thinking they are going to crush it - that is the wrong attitude IMO. Your first one is all about getting it done.
You could probably swim 1 hr flat, as I notice that my swimming time is pretty much double my 70.3 swim times. But the bike time is little optimistic and I think the run is a lot optimistic. How long have you been doing tris? What your background? You’re obviously fit, but no amount of training will put you at mile 20 of an Itonman marathon. You have to do one to know exactly how that feels. I know of lot of super fit freaks that absolutely bomb on their first ironmans, especially on th run
Run is a bit optimistic. A 1:25 (assuming fully tapered) 70.3 is about a 3:30-3:40 IM run depending on your overall bike/run fitness.
Based on the Daniels table (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=1062155;search_string=martinez%20daniels;) which I know a lot of people have found fairly accurate, and my n=1, when I ran 1:25 in my tapered IM prep 70.3 I went on to run 3:20 I’d say he’s certainly in the ball park. Everyone is different and I totally agree it’s probably better to be a bit too conservative than too optimistic though, so if in doubt start a tad slow.
Run is a bit optimistic. A 1:25 (assuming fully tapered) 70.3 is about a 3:30-3:40 IM run depending on your overall bike/run fitness.
Based on the Daniels table (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/…=martinez%20daniels;) which I know a lot of people have found fairly accurate, and my n=1, when I ran 1:25 in my tapered IM prep 70.3 I went on to run 3:20 I’d say he’s certainly in the ball park. Everyone is different and I totally agree it’s probably better to be a bit too conservative than too optimistic though, so if in doubt start a tad slow.
I agree. I ran a couple 1:26 splits in 70.3’s in the year leading up to a full, in which I ran sub 3:20. I biked that full at 72% FTP, so nothing crazy.
we have the same run time and same power on the bike (though you are faster on the bike than me…i’m a bigger guy). I typically do .80 target for HIM and run 1:30-1:33 time in and time out: but once I get to the IM run, the wheels fall off, so just be careful with that run goal. If I were you I’d drop that goal to about a 3:30 and enjoy the day. Pace those early miles REAL easy and you’ll be good.
Run is a bit optimistic. A 1:25 (assuming fully tapered) 70.3 is about a 3:30-3:40 IM run depending on your overall bike/run fitness.
Based on the Daniels table (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/…=martinez%20daniels;) which I know a lot of people have found fairly accurate, and my n=1, when I ran 1:25 in my tapered IM prep 70.3 I went on to run 3:20 I’d say he’s certainly in the ball park. Everyone is different and I totally agree it’s probably better to be a bit too conservative than too optimistic though, so if in doubt start a tad slow.
I’m not saying it’s not possible. But keep in mind CdA is about a 20-30’ slower bike course than a flatter one and the OP is a slightly weaker cyclist compared to his run and swim. I don’t think he posted his size, but I’m guessing at 280FTP, he’s a little lighter/shorter. That’s a disadvantage on the bike, but good for the run if you have sound mechanics.
