First delivery came in today…and it is even better then we expected. We need to do some ‘testeing’ but at first feel it fills tha gap between the nike zoom fly and the 4%.
The forefoot is cushioned, but not ultra soft like cliftonish, heel is a bit softer then forefoot, but the ‘spring’ from the carbon plate is more to feel then with the nike’s. For me personally this is by far a better fit then the nike’s. More room in the forefoot, perfect grip in the midfoot and not as high on the achilles as with the nike’s. Not that the nike’s bothered me but i just like a lower around the ankle.
The stability is so much better then the 4%, and i think even better then the zoom fly. And at this weight it is almost unbelievable stable for a racer.
The spring of the carbon plate is giving you really that feeling that it propels your feet forward. Toe off is super fast. I don’t think this is slower pace shoe, but i might be wrong. Until now for me personally hoka felt always too soft or just too much shoe, but this different. This is fast and furious. In the next few days i will do some testing against the zoom fly and 4% to see if there is a ‘speed’ difference.
Thanks Jeroen, that was what I was hoping for. What price range are they, and how does the size run on this shoe?? I usually get Bondis a 1/2 size bigger than normal, usually need at least that for my width…
I have pretry wide feet and can wear them in my regular size. The widest of feet mybe need to size a hal size up. Which in terms of doesn’t will be an issue since the heel and midfoot are pretty solid. i can say i find them pretty true to the size. I think they are around $ 160 in the US.
Awesome, thanks for the information. How do they feel compared with the Tracer 2? Based off your description they sound pretty similar in how the ride feels, but perhaps with more pop from the plate instead of just the meta-rocker.
Awesome, thanks for the information. How do they feel compared with the Tracer 2? Based off your description they sound pretty similar in how the ride feels, but perhaps with more pop from the plate instead of just the meta-rocker.
More room for the toes, definately much more pop, i’m not sure yet if it the rocker, the carbin plate, the combination of both but they feel awesome. If you just stand on them they feel like if you are almost leaning a bit backwards. Gone when you run in them though.
Tonight a run with a first serious effort on them, 8 x 1 km 3 min recovery. Can’t wait to run
Apparently they also feel it is more cushioned (forefoot) than Kinvara 10 and Razor 3. Do you confirm ?
This is a bit of personal taste as well, but I find them indeed well cushioned, but with much more pop and forward propulsion then Mach2 or Tracer. I don’t find the Tracer, at all, harsh. But they are definitely different then the Tracer. Also more cushioned forefoot then Kinvara, but again also with more pop, springness in them.
As for now I wouldn’t compare them to those, just to the Nike’s with the plate because that is 1 key component what makes them different.
Quick question… I curently run Clayton 2 shoes… Can’t find them anymore…
Would these Carbon Rocket be somewhat equivalent?? I’m a heel stricker and the Calyton 2 helped me to somewhat reduce this tendency, and I like the larger toe box of the Clayton 2… 4mm drop feels perfect and I like the extra cushionning too.
So first serious run in them. 6 x 1 km, with 1 km recovery.
This is an Hoka and it is not a Hoka. This shoe has 2 pretty different characters. The warming up they felt softer, but actually very stiff.
During the first km i got really surprised because that soft forefoot feeling vanished. The bitch in the shoe showed her face…they still felt cushioned, but much firmer, active and very responsive. But still stiff and i can imagine that some people find them too stiff.
So if you expect the ‘traditional’ softer Hokaish feeling, this is nothing like that at all. This shoe wants to be run in fast. I’m not yet sure if i like this shoe for a longer slower run.
Other shoes that I really like are the NB 1500T2 and the NB fresh foam zante pursuit, the last one also has a stiffer forefoot but more toe spring. More then this Rocket.
But after the 3rd fast km i got a sense how to strike my feet and they felt better and even faster. I didn’t mind the stifness but it is more noticeable in the Hoka’s then with the Nike’s. If have to find out if this is because the material, where it is positioned in the shoe compared to the Nike’s and/or the foam material. Or a combination of these aspects.
I have to run a bit more in them, but my first impression is really good. Upper material is very nice, soft and fit is very solid without being too tight. Mid foot is compact, but more room in the forefoot. Ran in them barefoot straight out of the box.
What i don’t get is what hoka wants with the shoe. I have seen nothing so far from hoka athletes, no promotional material came with the shoe, it was even so that we had a meeting with Hoka /Deckers 10 days ago and told us to expect delivery in early March, to find them on our floor yesterday…
Marketing wise they can learn a lot from Nike. If you bring something like this to the market you would expect that you mobilize your athletes and tell them to promote the shoe through their social media channels, have a video with explanation ready, show how the carbon plate works, etc.
Askes my contacts at Hoka some tech information and was send from door to another. Nothing was at hand to send out. Strange…
What i don’t get is what hoka wants with the shoe. I have seen nothing so far from hoka athletes, no promotional material came with the shoe, it was even so that we had a meeting with Hoka /Deckers 10 days ago and told us to expect delivery in early March, to find them on our floor yesterday…
Marketing wise they can learn a lot from Nike. If you bring something like this to the market you would expect that you mobilize your athletes and tell them to promote the shoe through their social media channels, have a video with explanation ready, show how the carbon plate works, etc.
Askes my contacts at Hoka some tech information and was send from door to another. Nothing was at hand to send out. Strange…
Jeroen
I mentioned this after it had been mentioned in the other thread. None of their athletes are talking about the shoe, maybe that’s the point? I’ve been staring down another pair of Napalis and have been wanting to get this shoe since Steve Jewell mentioned it.
I too am surprised a bit by Hoka’s total lack of ad hype on their carbon shoe.
But I def can see some very good reasons that would def help explain it:
Hoka has been aware to not overstate the (key) features of their shoes. Everyone who’s over 40 and wears Hokas knows that they’re ALL about embracing big cushioning, minimalism be danged. When you’re getting arthritis joints (count me in), even if you run faster with minimalist stuff, at some point, you will look to at least try a maxi shoe to see if it can alleviate some of the joint pain that’s killing your running. Yet Hoka has been super careful to not even mention that in their ads, even though pretty much everyone knows that’s the #1 feature of their shoe (maxi cushioning to allow a gentler run, particularly for the 40+ crowd.) Hoka will never make the medical-like claims of ‘injury reduction’ or ‘easier on your joints’ and risk getting sued like Vibram Fivefingers, despite the fact that anyone who buys Hokas buys them specifically for hopes of injury reduction due to maxi shoes feeling easier on joints.
They are only going to lose if they put their shoe head to head against Nike’s carbon shoe in performance tests. Nike’s shoe is worn by faster (the fastest) sponsored runners, Nike has more money to make a sub2 optimized event,and it’s a lighter shoe to begin with. Plus, I’m not even sure anyone believed Nike’s 4% data for joe average runner until the big NYT article put up some pretty astonishing large-scale data showing a real trend that’s hard to ignore/disprove about those shoes being the fastest out there. In fact, to date I haven’t even seen a single other analysis of shoe type that could make any sort of statistical and evidence backed claim of being truly ‘faster for normal folks’ until that NYT article. Hoka would def lose a head to head battle against the 4% shoe. Even if it’s by a tiny amount, it’s not going to come out on top.
The Hoka Carbon could very well still suck. I think it’s highly unlikely to given Hoka’s experience in making shoes now but who knows - maybe the shoe wears out, carbon breaks quickly, or even works totally fine but is different enough from the full stack Bondi 6 / Clifton 5 popular type maxi shoes that it’s utterly rejected by their main crowd of buyers. I actually suspect this is more of a test run for them - if it not only sells well, but performs well, they’ll def quickly come out with another, more strongly backed model after there’s less risk. Can’t say I disagree there.
What i don’t get is what hoka wants with the shoe. I have seen nothing so far from hoka athletes, no promotional material came with the shoe, it was even so that we had a meeting with Hoka /Deckers 10 days ago and told us to expect delivery in early March, to find them on our floor yesterday…
Marketing wise they can learn a lot from Nike. If you bring something like this to the market you would expect that you mobilize your athletes and tell them to promote the shoe through their social media channels, have a video with explanation ready, show how the carbon plate works, etc.
Askes my contacts at Hoka some tech information and was send from door to another. Nothing was at hand to send out. Strange…
Jeroen
I mentioned this after it had been mentioned in the other thread. None of their athletes are talking about the shoe, maybe that’s the point? I’ve been staring down another pair of Napalis and have been wanting to get this shoe since Steve Jewell mentioned it.
Walmsley mentions them, when asked if he was the only athlete not in vaporflys at Houston, on ultrarunner podcast. He managed to squeeze a 64 flat out of them.
I did 11 in them today (not in 64) and thought they were quick and comfortable.
The Hoka Carbon could very well still suck. I think it’s highly unlikely to given Hoka’s experience in making shoes now but who knows - maybe the shoe wears out, carbon breaks quickly, or even works totally fine but is different enough from the full stack Bondi 6 / Clifton 5 popular type maxi shoes that it’s utterly rejected by their main crowd of buyers. I actually suspect this is more of a test run for them - if it not only sells well, but performs well, they’ll def quickly come out with another, more strongly backed model after there’s less risk. Can’t say I disagree there.
It’s important to note that this is Hoka’s second Carbon Rocket. The Evo Carbon Rocket+ is the first one available to the public, three years ago they issued a limited run of shoes to their pros.
I too am surprised a bit by Hoka’s total lack of ad hype on their carbon shoe.
But I def can see some very good reasons that would def help explain it:
Hoka has been aware to not overstate the (key) features of their shoes. Everyone who’s over 40 and wears Hokas knows that they’re ALL about embracing big cushioning, minimalism be danged. When you’re getting arthritis joints (count me in), even if you run faster with minimalist stuff, at some point, you will look to at least try a maxi shoe to see if it can alleviate some of the joint pain that’s killing your running. Yet Hoka has been super careful to not even mention that in their ads, even though pretty much everyone knows that’s the #1 feature of their shoe (maxi cushioning to allow a gentler run, particularly for the 40+ crowd.) Hoka will never make the medical-like claims of ‘injury reduction’ or ‘easier on your joints’ and risk getting sued like Vibram Fivefingers, despite the fact that anyone who buys Hokas buys them specifically for hopes of injury reduction due to maxi shoes feeling easier on joints.
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The real question is if they ever developed the shoe with max cushioning with the intention to ‘solve’ or relief pain from arthritis, etc. I don’t think this was the case and it was just a side effect that came with the shoe.
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They are only going to lose if they put their shoe head to head against Nike’s carbon shoe in performance tests. Nike’s shoe is worn by faster (the fastest) sponsored runners, Nike has more money to make a sub2 optimized event,and it’s a lighter shoe to begin with. Plus, I’m not even sure anyone believed Nike’s 4% data for joe average runner until the big NYT article put up some pretty astonishing large-scale data showing a real trend that’s hard to ignore/disprove about those shoes being the fastest out there. In fact, to date I haven’t even seen a single other analysis of shoe type that could make any sort of statistical and evidence backed claim of being truly ‘faster for normal folks’ until that NYT article. Hoka would def lose a head to head battle against the 4% shoe. Even if it’s by a tiny amount, it’s not going to come out on top.
It has nothing to do with going head to head with Nike, but they still can do some form of attention, social media or in a different way to attract attention. It almost seems like they released this in complete silence.
The Hoka Carbon could very well still suck. I think it’s highly unlikely to given Hoka’s experience in making shoes now but who knows - maybe the shoe wears out, carbon breaks quickly, or even works totally fine but is different enough from the full stack Bondi 6 / Clifton 5 popular type maxi shoes that it’s utterly rejected by their main crowd of buyers. I actually suspect this is more of a test run for them - if it not only sells well, but performs well, they’ll def quickly come out with another, more strongly backed model after there’s less risk. Can’t say I disagree there.
It doesn’t suck and it is certainly not a test run. I know, but i am not allowed to tell more. The carbon doesn’t break. I have afew pairs, advantages of having a shop ;-), tried to bend one pair so far i could here the carbon make a chrunching sound certainly not breaking, to see if i could give them more toe spring and make them even more rockering. I just guess this is a weak link in the Deckers department, just not knowing how to create a marketing around an athletic shoe.
You say they feel soft at slower pace and firmer at higher paces. Because of heel softer ? Or foam reacting to impact (a bit like the DNA of Brook Ghost / Ravenna) ?
Regarding marketing : in France, Manon Genet is sponsored by Hoka, and by i-run (selling Hoka shoes) : the Carbon Rocket + does not appear anywhere.
Not in Hoka web site
Not in resellers sites
Not mentionned by athletes
Maybe you get some early deliveries, and the marketing wave still to come (a bit like for the Cervelo P5 disk
The Mach was the replacement for the Clayton 2, you might want to try that shoe. I’ve run in both, and I like the Mach a little better, but they are very similar. The Clayton 2 had issues for many people (including me) with rubbing towards the front of the foot arch. Check out leftlanesports, they seem to have some inventory of old Machs if you want an inexpensive purchase to try them out.