FIRST 3 day/week marathon training

Triathlon Forum
1

Have any of you followed the Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training (FIRST) marathon training plan of just 3 days of pretty intense running per week for a stand-alone marathon or in IM training? http://www.furman.edu/first/2.htm

Basically you run only 3 days a week at paces based on your 10K pace and also cross train hard for 2 days a week:

  1. Long run up to 20 miles at 10K pace plus 60-75 seconds per mile

  2. Tempo run up to 10 miles at 10K pace plus 0 – 30 seconds per mile

  3. Speed work of 400 – 2000 meter repeats eventually totaling up to 3 miles at 10K pace minus 30 – 60 seconds per mile

Runners World forum has lots of positive comments on the plan and they had an interesting article on it too:

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-51-56-0-8257,00.html

A few excerpts:

The Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training (FIRST) marathon program was born, in a sense, when Bill Pierce and Scott Murr decided to enter a few triathlons way back in the mid-1980s. Just one problem: They hit the wall when they added biking and swimming to their running. The demands of three-sport training were too much, so they cut back their running from six days a week to four.

To their surprise, they didn’t slow down in local road races. So they cut back to three days of running. “Lo and behold, our 10-K, half-marathon, and marathon times didn’t suffer at all,” says Pierce. “The more we discussed this–and we discussed it a lot–the more we became convinced that a three-day program, with some cross-training, was enough to maintain our running fitness.”

Pierce, chair of Furman’s Health and Exercise Science department, has run 31 marathons, with a best of 2:44:50. At 55, he still manages to knock out a 3:10 every fall by practicing what he preaches: running three workouts a week. While Pierce has retired from triathlons, Murr, 42, with a doctorate in exercise physiology, still wants to complete another Hawaii Ironman, having already done five. He has run a 2:46 marathon, also on three training runs a week.

2

I am thinking of doing this next year – seems perfect for triathletes. They have you running pretty fast, though… your two non-speedwork runs are only 0 to 75 seconds per mile slower than a 10K pace?? I am afraid I’d burn out doing that every week.

3

I have trained for an ultra marathon using a similiar plan. The 3 days a week will definetly do it as long as you follow the plan. As i was training for an ultra I modified it slightly. Original plan was one LSD, one tempo and one short faster than normal run a week. I dropped the faster run and did one lsd, one tempo, and one shorter lsd per week.

I was a little slower than I would have liked but I finished the race. (50K)

4

Is 3 days a week a better plan then 6 days a week. I don’t think it is. Not if reaching your potential is the aim.

Running a marathon (or ultra) is possible on this plan for sure. How did the trial subjects train before this plan. If like most they were under trained for the marathon before then this plan may give them a PB. If they were athletes that ran 100km + a week with the appropriate speed work then I cant see any way that this plan would give them a PB.

As for the authors, they may be talented athletes with very deep bases. Take someone like that and give them a reduced plan with intensity they are still going to run fast. That does not apply to the general population.

5

**Is 3 days a week a better plan then 6 days a week. I don’t think it is. Not if reaching your potential is the aim. **

I agree that a 6-day plan is far superior but there seems to be an obsession with training as little as possible for a marathon, and the result is a decline in the average marathon time. I think a marathon takes a lot more time to prepare than most people think, to properly allow your body to adapt and get fit. It is one thing to run a marathon just to finish, and another to race and the vast majority these days are doing the former.

I think it is a very unhealthy trend, as we are hurting our bodies in a short time to complete a goal, and then moving on to something else. We seem to be losing sight of the difference between being fit and being healthy and the result is an increase in injuries and a shorter life span in running as people move onto other things to conquer. I see less and less people running for enjoyment, and more and more just running so they can finish a marathon and then never running again.

The 3-day plan seems good for triathletes doing triathlons, but not the best for runners doing marathons.

6

…after 5 knee surgeries…and running with a friggin forest gump knee brace – I have trained for tris…and a random 1/2 marathon or two on only running 3 days/week – my knees simply cant handle the 4th day…or more…

So…yes…I’m slow - pretty much locked in at BOP – but I have sen my running times improve - and with yes “shock” only 3 days/week…

…the key for fitness and “success” is the other cross training days - long bike rides, etc…(which I think is what the program suggests)

…just my random input…

-Ron

7

From my own personal experience as an athlete and an adviser, this would be a good program for a VERY experienced runner with a DEEP base of run training that was training for triathlons as well. 3 days/week of this sort of training would be good. It’s more or less what I did for many years - one long run of 20 miles or so( 7:00 min mile), one tempo like run at 10K to 1/2 Marathon pace( 5:30 - 6:00 min/mile) and then one Interval type of workout with harder/faster Vo2 max type of efforts at 5K race pace( 5:00 - 5:30 min/mile) or faster.

However, it has been my experience that for anyone who has run LESS than 5 years, or who has running as key limiter, and/or who is serious about REALLY improving a weak run, this is NOT the best method. The tried and true protocol is to first increase run frequency in days-of-running/week to 5 - 6 days-of-running/week were you just run - don’t worry about pace that much, just get out the door and run. Yes, the other sports will take a back seat. Yes, you will loose some fitness in them( note that I said some, not ALL), but after a focused time of doing this for 2 - 4 months, you will experience a substantial increase in run fitness and consistancy. Balance things out with bringing the other two sports back into the game and you will see a significant improvment in your triathlon race performance - it’s almost gauranteed.

Fleck

8

My brother was part of this years study (hopefully he’ll reply to give his own 1st hand experience and observations). As a casual observer of his training, I guess I disagree with the implication that it’s ‘just’ a 3-day plan. It seemed to be marketed as a 3 day/week training plan, but I’m pretty sure the key to the program is the role of the 2 extra workouts each week. I think they’re (FIRST) conducting the study to collect data to prove/disprove the notion that the benefit you gain by doing 2 additional *runs *per week is no better than if you did 2 additional workouts per week. In other words, it’s a 5 day/week marathon training study that is testing to see if you really need to run all 5 days like conventional wisdom suggests.

9

Well put Fleck. Exactly my experience as well. There are no shortcuts.

10

I was part of this year’s study, and am the brother alluded to above. It worked great for me, decreasing my running pace by a minute per mile or so over 10K to marathon distance.

I am definitely in the beginner category, participating in this running study after my first year of triathlons specifically in order to focus on running, and having never run a marathon before. So perhaps I’d have made gains no matter how I trained. Would I have gained more running 5-6 days per week? Maybe, maybe not. But I know that I would have injured myself running 5-6 days per week. I flirted with some overuse injuries even at 3 (intense) days per week, probably because I don’t have the base/volume of a more experienced triathlete.

My brother is right to point out the importance of the cross-training in the FIRST philosophy. It’s not just a 3-day-per-week training plan, although the Runner’s World article may have come off that way. The point is that you still do 5-6 days of training. But for 2-3 of those days you can get the aerobic benefit from swimming or biking (or whatever), without inflicting the extra pounding on your joints.

The 3 running days are tough, at least in the plan they constructed for me. There are no LSD runs – more like long tempo runs, not all that far off of target marathon pace. And there were five 20-milers in the training plan, which is quite different from the usual 16-weeks-to-a-marathon plan.

The philosophy, as I understood/experienced it, is that you should run hard enough on your 3 runs that you need the days off in between. There are no recovery runs. I definitely couldn’t have trained that intensely for 5-6 runs per week. But I could usually (not always) go out and bike or swim hard the day after or day of a hard run.

It seems to me like this approach is pretty close to what most of us are doing already as triathletes. I’m sure if you want to be an elite runner, there is no substitute for running 5-6 days per week. But if you want to be a better triathlete, you can only afford to run 2-3 days per week anyway.

11
  1. Tempo run up to 10 miles at 10K pace plus 0 – 30 seconds per mile

Running 10 miles at 10K pace plus zero would be pretty tough :wink:

It’s simple enough. I agree with many that running just 3X a week would work best if there was a LOT of cross training going on. This is something I might consider since I am a faster runner but I have a lot of ground to make up cycling.