Felt AR Geometry

They’ve finally released it - Site

A few comments
It looks like an intelligently designed and specced bike, there are lots of small details that appeal. Producing the fork in two different rakes to improve the handling of the little bikes (and alleviate overlap), having 2 offsets of the aero post from the start, 165mm cranks on the smallest size, putting sensible fast wheels on stock (under their own name to keep the cost down).

The frame will fit, in terms of position co-ordinates, quite similarly to the Soloist. THe sizes 54 and above are fairly well interchangeable apart from the 61 where the felt is ~10mm longer.

I’ve calculated the Stack and Reach for the AR and have shown it with the SLC geometry for purposes of comparison.

http://i37.tinypic.com/20udbgg.jpg

One thing you will notice is that the Felt has longer chainstays and consequently a longer wheelbase. If I were to make a critiscism of the SLC for the average buyer (since most who buy them are not racers) it would be that the short chainstays push the weight distribution rearwards and thus you need to have a position with a long stem and stretched body in order to get the best out of the handling (note that the bike is suited to its target market - but the average consumer is not a racer). So the AR will have a WD% more like that of a traditional road racing frame, but with the aero benefits that Cervelo first brought to market effectively.

The AR is also much taller than the F-Carbon series and thus gives Felt an offering in between the longe and low F’s and short/tall Z’s.

If I were to find something to pick at with the AR it would be the size 51. In order to respect the 575mm minimum front-center convention for reducing toe overlap they’ve made a frame that is only slightly differentiated from the 54 above it. If you fit the same stem and put 21mm more spacers on the 51 then the 51 is only 6mm shorter reach than the 54. Rather than being a smaller bike it is probably more apt to view it as a 54-low, so for a rider needing the bars lower than they can conveniently be positioned on the 54 it is quite appropriate to choose a 51 (assuming the steeper STA is not an issue, but the 38mm offset post should aid that). It would seem that Felt don’t pay quite as much attention to stack and reach as Cervelo since the sizes don’t progress as smoothly but this doesn’t particularly matter, in fact it may make more sense to concentrate your sizes in the region that the majority of riders will fit so that you present the clued up rider/fitter with several possibilities.

Overall I’m very impressed, though that will change if someone gets hold of one and proves that it requires more power to drive than an SLC (it will have to be a blind test). It’s a bike targetted at the same group of consumers as the SLC but with slightly different handling characteristics that should appeal to the kind of rider who favours Colnagos and other “classic” geometry bikes. The fact that there are a range of colourways and specs doesn’t hurt either.

It’s certainly exciting to have a second valid option in the Aero Road stakes (before someone mentions the Ridley Noah - their own testing showed it to be no different to a standard road bike so it doesn’t count). Healthy competition between two engineering focussed brands can only be good for the quality of product available to the consumer.

The frame will fit, in terms of position co-ordinates, quite similarly to the Soloist. THe sizes 54 and above are fairly well interchangeable apart from the 61 where the felt is ~10mm longer.

I don’t understand this comment. According to your sheet, the 51, 54, 56 of the Felt have more or less all the same reach, there is no real difference in how the three fit and from 51 to 54 it even gets 1mm shorter. From that to the 56 it only gets 4mm longer, also not exactly a lot. That’s completely different from the Cervelo stack which increases consistently with increasing sizes and by reasonable amounts, 9-14mm per size. Out of all these frames, the only two that are interchangeable from a reach point of view are the 56cm Soloist and the 58cm Felt. That’s it, the rest is completely different.

I can’t seem to find the one statistic I am dying to know on this bike. How much is it going to cost. Any ideas for frameset cost?

Doesn’t seem like any of their '09 models have prices yet; I think we need to wait until Interbike to get that info.

I don’t understand this comment. According to your sheet, the 51, 54, 56 of the Felt have more or less all the same reach, there is no real difference in how the three fit and from 51 to 54 it even gets 1mm shorter. From that to the 56 it only gets 4mm longer, also not exactly a lot. That’s completely different from the Cervelo stack which increases consistently with increasing sizes and by reasonable amounts, 9-14mm per size. Out of all these frames, the only two that are interchangeable from a reach point of view are the 56cm Soloist and the 58cm Felt. That’s it, the rest is completely different.
Here are my calcs for difference in overall reach (centre of bars) with normalised stack.
54s are 5mm apart, 56s - 3mm, 58s - 6mm

Obviously not precisely equivalent but its not appropriate to make precision commentary on something as individual as fit. Obviously they don’t progress their sizes as smoothly as you do, nor do they have the super short reach that you offer. But for most people in the middle to tall height range they will not have the choice between these bikes determined by gross differences in fit.

If you and SuperDave could both send bikes to Tom A for “halfpipe testing” it would really enliven the comparison :wink:

Plus, I’m dying to know if the P2 and P3 are going to get the cable system from the S3, shall be watching closely over the next 2 shows.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2howljo.jpg

Standover heights must be a mis-print on Felt website?

Standover heights must be a mis-print on Felt website?

Hmm, by my calcs they should be a bit lower than indicated. But we’ll wait for an amendment or explanation.

They apear to be significantly higher than the similar Cervelo- and the Felt has a lower bb.

They apear to be significantly higher than the similar Cervelo- and the Felt has a lower bb.
Maybe they are anti-compacts with an upsloping top tube?

I called Felt for information on the AR and got an msrp on the AR4 of around $3600 with Ultegra SL build. AR2 will be close to $6000 and it gets into nose bleed territory from there. They also said, and this is where I got disappointed that the frameset will not be available in '09. I think the frame is really appealing but could do with better graphics. With all of the aero tweeks to it one has to wonder how it compares to the Cervelo SLC. From the price structure that I got it seems that the AR4 would be a pretty close match pricewise to an SLC and the AR1 with its NanoTube frame would compare to the SLC-SL. One thing that I notice is that Felt stuck with the weak seat clamp design that has given so many DA owners headaches. I hope they sorted that one out so that a poor design will not spoil an otherwise nice looking frame. The bikes are supposed to be available in November for any of you ready to dive in.

Not 8cm different though-
.

I called Felt for information on the AR and got an msrp on the AR4 of around $3600 with Ultegra SL build. AR2 will be close to $6000 and it gets into nose bleed territory from there. They also said, and this is where I got disappointed that the frameset will not be available in '09. I think the frame is really appealing but could do with better graphics. With all of the aero tweeks to it one has to wonder how it compares to the Cervelo SLC. From the price structure that I got it seems that the AR4 would be a pretty close match pricewise to an SLC and the AR1 with its NanoTube frame would compare to the SLC-SL. One thing that I notice is that Felt stuck with the weak seat clamp design that has given so many DA owners headaches. I hope they sorted that one out so that a poor design will not spoil an otherwise nice looking frame. The bikes are supposed to be available in November for any of you ready to dive in.
The seat clamp is nothing like the DA, The frame is slotted and the clamp slips over the top of the frame. Similar to a traditional seatpost clamp, but an aero shape. It is slightly wider than the DA clamp as is the seat tube so the blended shape overall is similar. The clamping mechanism is not.

Any resolution on the incorrect posted standover height?

Any resolution on the incorrect posted standover height?

I’ll check into it, I’ve been reviewing the details on the site and have some improvements to update.

It’s still under development as you may recognize, we’ll get it dialed in. The AR has a horizontal top tube and as a result it will have less standover than our sloping frames.

-SD

…They also said, and this is where I got disappointed that the frameset will not be available in '09.

That sucks. I’m not interested in any of their complete builds…
Looks like a damn nice frame.

ditto… very interested in a frame only version

Yes- but hte AR geometry shows a standover higher than a similar flat toptube bike
.

Yes- but hte AR geometry shows a standover higher than a similar flat toptube bike

As you said, the standover dimensions are incorrect on the web-site.
Here are the correct standover dimensions for the AR bikes

AR 700c
Standover 749 774 794 798 816

Sorry for the delayed response, it’s been a crazy couple weeks.

-SD

This has nothing to do with what you just said, but now that I’ve got proof you’re on and answering questions…are/when are you guys going to post MSRP for the new lineups? You have some many interesting bikes, but as usual something is only interesting up to a certain price. :slight_smile:

This has nothing to do with what you just said, but now that I’ve got proof you’re on and answering questions…are/when are you guys going to post MSRP for the new lineups? You have some many interesting bikes, but as usual something is only interesting up to a certain price. :slight_smile:

It is a funny world we are living in today. For the first time there is so much turmoil in the global economy and unrest in raw material prices namely oil, aluimnum and steel that finished good prices are a bit of a moving target today. Couple the raw materials with the US dollar that few in the global market want to touch right now and you end up with a challenging pricing environment.

Your local Felt dealer has the official price list with which they can base their selling prices and the moment we can get the green light to publish our MSRP we will.

In the mean time, what bike do you find interesting? Perhaps I can help you with a suggested retail price.

-SD