hi new to the site and hoping that ST can help me with reviews of anyone who knows what the Chinese tt bikes are like , these seem to be a good value and look very similar to name brand bikes, any information would be appreciated
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There was an article on slowtwitch about varied experiences from group buys. http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/Tales_of_Open_Mold_Purchases_5128.html
TLDR: QA and customer support appears to be an issue.
hi new to the site and hoping that ST can help me with reviews of anyone who knows what the Chinese tt bikes are like , these seem to be a good value and look very similar to name brand bikes, any information would be appreciatedThey aren’t good value. It’s not worth the risk. Stay away.
I recently bought and built a chinese road frame.
That being said there is a definite risk involved, I’m hoping that if the frame does break it isn’t catastrophic while I’m riding down the road.
I was able to build a full 105 carbon bike for around 1100. The same bike from the store would have been around 3500-3800 bike.
The biggest issues are that the quality control isn’t there for these bikes and if something does happen to the bike you’re probably out your money.
I went with Deng-Fu because they seem to have the least about of negative feedback I could find.
I sent my money and less than two weeks later I had a frame.
That being said. You’re probably better off buying a solid used bike.
Who the world is paying $3,800 for a 105 carbon bike?
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
You’re much better off—safer— w/ a 5yo Specialized/Trek/Giant/Cervelo.
I recently bought and built a chinese road frame.
That being said there is a definite risk involved, I’m hoping that if the frame does break it isn’t catastrophic while I’m riding down the road.
I was able to build a full 105 carbon bike for around 1100. The same bike from the store would have been around 3500-3800 bike.
The biggest issues are that the quality control isn’t there for these bikes and if something does happen to the bike you’re probably out your money.
I went with Deng-Fu because they seem to have the least about of negative feedback I could find.
I sent my money and less than two weeks later I had a frame.
That being said. You’re probably better off buying a solid used bike.Even if you take the safety aspect out of the equation: the layup on these frames - where the actual benefits arise - is night and day between the knockoff frames and quality carbon frames from quality brands.
We took a trip to Felt a year ago and had Jeff Soucek give us an overview of carbon tech on bikes and took some video. I think they turned out really informative and really good. Check them out if you’re interested:
http://trishop.com/felt-carbon-technology
Who the world is paying $3,800 for a 105 carbon bike?
maybe expensive wheels? idk
hi new to the site and hoping that ST can help me with reviews of anyone who knows what the Chinese tt bikes are like , these seem to be a good value and look very similar to name brand bikes, any information would be appreciated
FWIW, this is how I think about it. A bike frame will last a very long and you will get a lot of use out of it. For something like that, I hate going the cheap way out. I’m not saying budget shouldn’t be an issue, it’s just I don’t know that I would trust a Chinese tt bike for quality and for a bike frame I would like some level of confidence that if something goes wrong I would get support from the builder.
Like others have said, used might be the way to go. What bike are you riding now?
I recently bought and built a chinese road frame.
That being said there is a definite risk involved, I’m hoping that if the frame does break it isn’t catastrophic while I’m riding down the road.
I was able to build a full 105 carbon bike for around 1100. The same bike from the store would have been around 3500-3800 bike.
The biggest issues are that the quality control isn’t there for these bikes and if something does happen to the bike you’re probably out your money.
I went with Deng-Fu because they seem to have the least about of negative feedback I could find.
I sent my money and less than two weeks later I had a frame.
That being said. You’re probably better off buying a solid used bike.
Anybody buying a carbon 105 bike for 3500-3800 is throwing away money.
Watch this, and see how comfortable you feel about unbranded chinese carbon.
Great link, James. Thanks.
Was that a BMC fork with the voids?
If so, I’m pretty bummed.
My thoughts when watching that video are not really “oh man I bet my Cervelo has some carbon issues” (as it probably does, but I’ll never know) it’s wow these are huge manufacturers who have giant R and D departments and are backed by an expansive customer service and warranty department. The Deng Fu stuff? Yea, it doesn’t have that.
I think if you’re going chinese carbon but sticking with reputable places like hongfu, dengfu or miracle bikes the chance of having a catastrophic issue is a lot less. I remember watching some “behind the scenes” from taipei bike show where a lot of these “open mould” or carbon manufacterers will do some weird shit and then pitch it to smaller companies. Take a look at the Devinci Leo TT bike, it’s identical to a FM098.There are other examples (Merida Wasp). These bikes might have an extra “check” on their quality control paperwork but for the most part they’re completely identical.
As for that Shane Miller video, that goes with any carbon manufacturer. To me there are two types of carbon bicycle manufacturers. Bike companies that are trying to figure out how carbon works and carbon companies trying to make bicycles. I think companies like felt and cervelo are/were ahead of the curve when it came to making carbon bicycles but for the most part carbon tech and bike tech has kind of hit an equilibrium where companies that previously only did carbon fibre manufacturing can now successfully make a bicycle.
That said, if you go the chinese route you have 0 support/assistance if anything fucks up. A lot of the $$$ you pay for a Cannondale or Cervelo is warranty and support dollars. They’ll be there if your chainstays snap. Dengfu probably won’t be.
Completely avoid anything on alibaba/aliexpress/ebay without doing proper researched. Completely avoid carbon clinchers.
Now here’s a topic that will probably never die. My n=1:
I began doing some research on this topic last year, there are hours of debate to read on forums on the risk/reward of going this route. There are basically two camps of off-branded Chinese/Asian frames out there. The first is the eBay/Alibaba/never-heard of this brand but the price is too good to be true stuff. I wouldn’t touch this with a 10 foot pole. They are quickly identified by the many, many threads you can find via google for their lack of quality and non-existent customer service. These typically are the frames that are a direct knock off of a name brand frame, often with fake name brand paint jobs. These are the off brand boogeymen that are often identified in the counterfeit frame stories you will see in the media. They are indeed often counterfeits, made to look like a specific name brand model. They may also be the $300 frames you see on eBay made god-knows-where. Probably nobody should ride these ever based on the lack of quality control, ambiguous origins, and fly-by-night parent companies.
The second camp is the few large OEM open mold frame makers. They have their own molds and make frames with the same workers in the same factories with the same materials as all of the name brand frames you will find on the market today. Many of them have quality standards and certifications that they can and will verify and have been in business for some time (5+ years). They have real humans that work for them that you can talk to and interact with, and offer some level of guarantee/warranty.
I went the route of a known and established frame maker- DengFu- when I purchased my FM098. This is a model that has been made by this company for many years and has received almost universal approval from actual owners, i.e. n= many, many. It is *not *a Venge clone, it has some similarities and many differences. I sold my CAAD10 to purchase this frame and couldn’t be happier. I have owned a few bikes in my time and this frame is fast, stiff, and reliable. I ride it fast, down big hills, over gravel, long distances, in the rain, you name it and have put some pretty good miles on it since I got it. I have even crashed it with no structural damage sustained as verified by the LBS. I ordered a custom paint job and it delivered to my door in a matter of weeks. Purchased via PayPal, so I had that protection as well. This is a frame that exceeds my expectations for $700 and I would buy it again in a heartbeat if this one were stolen or crashed out.
Many of the naysayers who tell you of the dangers and risks and other maladies that will fall upon you and your heirs have never owned an off-branded Chinese/Asian frame or are speaking from the limited knowledge of above mentioned camp #1. They are speaking from hearsay and opinion they have read on the internet. Some of the naysayers are bike shop owners/workers who still depend on you buying bikes from them at inflated prices to stay in business. My LBS (who is no longer stuck in the past model of bike sales to support their business model) was impressed with my frame when I brought it in to have the bearings pressed. This shop is also big into buying Chinese hoops and lacing them up for their club riders. Chinese carbon frames (from reputable manufacturers like DengFu) as well as wheels are regular staples of many club riders and non-sponsored racers. If you don’t believe me, go to your next local crit race and take note of the branded vs. unbranded frames and wheels you will see.
Long story short, do your homework, there are reputable manufacturers with track records to support them that offer great products at prices that make carbon frames accessible to “the rest of us”. Folks that like to shoot them down have typically never owned or ridden them and only echo the exploding frame boogeyman stories they have read that get passed on the internet. Some folks simply can’t or won’t believe you can’t spend less than they did and got something of comparable value/safety/technology/you fill in the blank. In regards to going *used *on a name brand carbon frame, unless from a close friend, is a gamble IMHO. I would rather ride new carbon than carbon with an unverified history that may have been crashed/dropped/damaged, etc. I’m sure there are plenty of garage queens out there to be had, but if you ride enough, you will crash, and those crashed bikes are out there for sure.
Again, just my n=1. My best advice is to do your homework and carefully consider the real-life experience of your sources of opinion on the topic.
I’d love to hear your thoughts regarding clinchers. I’m one year into a pair that have been great and am shopping for another pair.
I’d love to hear your thoughts regarding clinchers. I’m one year into a pair that have been great and am shopping for another pair.
And it could stay that way, until one day they just blow out. If you’re not doing a lot of braking, you’re probably fine. I wouldn’t trust them. I don’t trust carbon clinchers from reputable companies either, though, and I think the insecurity/safety regarding carbon clinchers is one of the reasons manufacturers are pushing disc brakes so much. Carbon isn’t aluminum and carbon clinchers just copy an aluminum design. I’ve seen quite a few aluminum wheels fail, bulge out, and still hold the tire on it. I’ve never heard of that with carbon.
this is a very hotly debated topic, most famously discussed on this 7th iteration of gigantic thread on Road Bike Reviews:
I was also considering going the chinese carbon route. Chances are, the bike would have functioned just fine.
However, I chose to go to my local Cannondale store and talk face-to-face with professionals who will stand by their products (and throw in a bike fit too).
Good luck
Anybody buying a carbon 105 bike for 3500-3800 is throwing away money.
Agreed, probably over sold that a bit. probably closer to 1800-2200.
Agreed on the, “go check out a local race.” At any Minnesota mountain bike series race there are damn near equal numbers of flat black unbranded frames as there are fancy painted name brand bikes. Given, if you race enough your mountain bike frame is pretty well disposable.
Around here the off brand wheels aren’t as popular considering you can get a set of HEDs for pretty steep discounts at a lot of shops, gotta love the local brands.
We also have LaMere cycles here, JP is selling no name frames built to spec and he offers a warranty (lifetime on manufacturing defects) on the frames.
I have a dengfu fm098 for 4 years. It’s been great, it’s super fast.
There’s propoganda galore about why not to do it. My experience, and friends who have also purchased from dengfu, has been 100% positive.
In the event you need a warranty claim, I’ve seen them come through on that too
I’ve seen the TT bikes, with more complicated frames (e.g. Integrated stem) get negative reviews. But nothing from an actual owner of the relatively “simple” road bikes