Fake Specialized Tarmac SL?

Can anyone shed any light on this, perhaps someone from Specialized, I know someone from the company has posted on here in the past…

I am in the UK and have been offered for sale by a private seller a brand new frameset and seatpost for the equivalent of $1300. Now I know the old adage that if it looks too good to be true then it probably is too good to be true, but this guy is happy to hand over the bike in person and take payment at the same time so clearly he has the frames and has sent me the photos below (including frame numbers etc.).

Having done a bit of research it seems there are some fake Tarmac SLs in existence, my question is is this one (I strongly suspect it is)? What sort of quality actually are the fakes? Are they from the same factories, because they appear very good quality and identical shape, are they made from the same moulds? Is the carbon used very inferior?

I have more or less decided to leave this alone but am stunned at the quality of craftsmanship if this is, as suspected, a fake. Any clues? Thanks…

http://i28.tinypic.com/2rygak9.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/i6k1fp.jpg

http://i29.tinypic.com/34ee35f.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2rw71w3.jpg

http://i31.tinypic.com/21etbls.jpg

Specialized has most likely no more than $500 in that frame set so it is not unrealistic that someone would sell it at that price. The seller may have gotten it for free or in a barter deal.

Making a fake CF bike seems like pretty hard work… almost like trying to make fake cars.

Fair enough. Originally he was selling a 54 full bike on Ebay with Campag, I ride Shimano so I asked if he would sell the frame only. He replied that he has another frameset (also brand new) in the same colour and size. He then sends me pics of the 52 and realising the size mistake says he also has a 54 frameset to sell. Other things that make me nervous… his email address indicates he is from the far east originally and judging from his grammar and spelling English is clearly not his first language. Now this could be paranoia of the highest order, but £650 for a brand new S Works is an unbelievable deal.

I agree, but it obviously does happen, see the article on this page…

Fake Tarmacs

Not knowing anything about this bike, and just going with your impression that it seems like too good of a deal, is there a way for you to verify that the bike isn’t stolen? In the U.S. there are “buyer beware” laws, meaning that if the rightful owner came forward YOU the unwitting purchaser of a dream bike at a dream price, would have to give it back.

I will make some checks in the morning but I doubt this amount of brand new frames have been stolen from an individual. Possibly in transit or from a shop, but more likely they are a. fakes or b. someone legitimate that has a few 2007 frames to sell quickly.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCWhatsNewDetail.jsp?article=6353&refp=USHome
.

I agree, but it obviously does happen, see the article on this page…

Fake Tarmacs
Or so they say…

I guess that is the real question? To make a counterfeit this good it seems to me it must be coming from the original factory who have access to the same molds etc. and therefore MAY be manufactured to the same spec, it is just in Specialized’s interests to claim they are dangerous. What do you think? I already own an S Works SL and was surfing ebay looking for a training bike to replace a steel frame that just cracked.

i dont know, it is a gamble. It seems that everything in that Gung-Ho article are on the bike you are looking at, size, color, partial serial number

I guess that is the real question? To make a counterfeit this good it seems to me it must be coming from the original factory who have access to the same molds etc. and therefore MAY be manufactured to the same spec, it is just in Specialized’s interests to claim they are dangerous. What do you think? I already own an S Works SL and was surfing ebay looking for a training bike to replace a steel frame that just cracked.

That is how a lot of products are manufactured “fake”. The manufacture subs out the process to a factory (typically in another company). That company makes the product, then they make the “fakes” at the same time or sell the information to someone else to manufacture the fakes. Once you have all of the information, it is easy to do (so to speak). This is fairly common among the clothing and accessory industry. In that industry there is very little to differentiate between a real production and a fake one.

If you are buying a Rolex, stay away!

On the other hand, I am in the import business, and like STYK33 said, they are not really fakes, just un authorized sales. I have been on business trip overseas and walked into stores and have seen my product, unchanged with my logos, on the floor to people I have never sold.

Specialized buys from a huge factory in China, and trust me, if they make 10,000 frames, and Specialized changes their order to 8,000 frames, they sell the extra 2,000 frames.

I just never trust the EBAY thing. If I can’t touch it or speak to whom I am sending $1300 to, I don’t buy.

Just to update where I got to on this…

I met up with this guy at lunchtime today with a view to buying both frames (52 and 54 - the smaller one for a friend). The frames were exactly as pictured, but on close inspection were not particularly well finished, lots of carbon swarf inside the tubing etc. I would say they were 95% perfect but the 5% left me with enough doubt to decline the sales.

His explanation was that the frames were from the Specialized factory but were given to his family company (a bike dealership) to sell ‘unofficially’. He also claimed that the reason they were a little unfinished is because the final cleaning and quality control gets done by Specialized outside of China.

It may all be true and I missed a great bargain, but I am happy to have walked away and not worry about the bike disintegrating at 80kph on a hill next week!

Oh, and by the way, thanks everyone for the input, I appreciate your help.

You’re partially correct. Some fakes are exactly the same just unauthorized. However some are made in the same mold, but with inferior materials. My guess is if you have a topend bike made by a Tier 2 plant you better do your own QC to make sure the material is up to snuff. Nothing to stop the Tier 2 factory from tossing what ever carbon scraps they have lying around for the unauthorized bikes.

Styrrell

It is almost certainly a fake and I suspect I may know the ebay seller. Tony1980 cycles?
I almost bought a Bianchi frame from him, till I noticed some disrepancies in the stickers and also the painted forks. I emailed a previous buyer who had bought a Tarmac then been emailed by Specialized a week later telling him his frame was a fake. Apparently there have been thefts of equipment from Chinese and Taiwanese factories that are then used to produce fake frames. My guess is they’ve stoled certain sizes of moulds. As someone else said, they shape may be identical ut who knows what it is actually made of and how it has been put together. This ebay seller also has Pinarello Prince frame:

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/tony1980_cycles_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

BUMP: http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/2082.html
More Specialized Fakes Turning Up

MORGAN HILL, CA (BRAIN)—The current batch of counterfeit Specialized Tarmac framesets circulating the Internet isn’t the first time Specialized has dealt with sales of fake products, but it is the brashest case the supplier has seen, according to Mark Schroeder, director of engineering for Specialized.

“Specialized is one of the more popular brands to copy in China,” Schroeder said. “We have long been the target of counterfeits in China, but this was on low-end bikes that stayed in China. This is the first time we have had a high-end product so blatantly ripped off.”

Specialized issued a press release recently detailing the fake S Works Tarmac framesets that its investigators started discovering on eBay and Craigslist earlier this year.

They are blue and red 2007 and 2008 frames and forks in sizes 52 and 54 centimeters with no serial numbers on the frame and/or fork or a fork serial number starting with K85L, or a headset carbon cone with FSA logo.

The fake frames are near duplicates of the Outside 3D frame shape, but the composite construction is different, meaning an outside factory is responsible for their production, Schroeder said.

“These frames are not being sold/diverted out the back door of our factory, but are instead being made somewhere else. Where we do not know, nor have our investigators been able to find this counterfeit factory,” he said.

They do know that the factory is in Taiwan or China as many of the customers who have purchased the fakes said the frames were shipped from China. Specialized also has reports of people buying counterfeit framesets while in China.

There is no way for Specialized to estimate the number of fake frame sales, and it’s nearly impossible to stay ahead of the issue.

“The problem with tracking down the factories and sellers in China is that the Chinese government is unwilling to cooperate at the level we need to solve the problem. We proactively try to shut down sales on eBay and other sites through our team that monitors fake Internet sales. We monitor these sites every day but the problem is we can’t stop every auction.

Schroeder said counterfeit S Works Pave seatposts have also been discovered and that counterfeit clothing is also a huge problem for the company.

The company posted a notice on its Web site this week informing consumers that they only way to guarantee the authenticity of Specialized bikes and products is to make purchases through an authorized Specialized dealer.

Anyone with any questions regarding the authenticity of a Specialized product, should contact Specialized customer service at (877) 808-8154 or store_customerservice@specialized.com.

—Nicole Formosa