I realize this is a stupid question. I further realize the loudest answer will be “do an FTP test.” I’m going to ask it anyway.
I just bought a new-to-me powermeter and am trying to figure out how to use it. I’ll have 4 months to play around on it and do many tests after CdA, but I want to use it to pace Idaho as well. Unfortunately, we’re <5 weeks from race day and I’m nearing the end of my final build phase. I don’t think I have the legs or mental fortitude to perform a true FTP test. What I have on the schedule are mile repeats.
So here’s what I’m wondering:
Can I record power during the repeats, take an average (toss out outliers), and take a certain percentage of that to guestimate FTP? I’ll likely do a true test some time in the peak phase, but I’d like to have an estimate now: I’m doing a century ride Saturday, and would like to test a power-based Ironman race pace during an actual ride.
I don’t think I have the legs or mental fortitude to perform a true FTP test.
If that is the case you have overestimated your FTP and are going out too strong. By definition, anyone that can ride continuously for an hour has an FTP… Maybe you don’t have the fitness to hold what you think you ought to be holding?
Anyways, do the 20 minute test. It will give you a very good idea and won’t hurt that much.
If you can’t do a 20 minute FTP test because of lack of mental fortitude, how are you going to finish an IM? Have never done an IM, but I can only imagine that it is 1000x harder than an FTP test.
It shouldn’t affect your training much, so put your head down and get it done!
Your legs are too tired to do any kind of threshold test but you can do mile repeats? How hard will you be doing them? How many? How much rest? You can maybe get a decent ballpark guess out of this workout, maybe not.
Why not just do a threshold effort - 20/30/40/or-gasp-60-minutes, get decent data, and do something far more specific to your goal race?
Here is the problem. You want to take a 3 minute test to extrapolate into a FTP power estimation to then extrapolate the FTP to a IM power range. Don’t do it. If you want some meaningful data just record and analyze any long rides you have coming up to see how your 3-4-5 hour bike power actually is. Absent a FTP test or long ride data, I would use the powermeter on race day strictly as a data gathering tool for your training going into IM Florida. You’ve trained so far on HR or RPE or Speed and it would be silly to switch gears so suddenly for an important race.
First off outside of what everyone else is saying there is a decent way to estimate FTP from a 3 minute effort. It is not a 3 minute evenly paced effort though. If you pedal every pedal stroke as hard as physically possible the entire 3 minutes your power will look like this:
Would I solely use this number to plan my training? Absolutely not. It would just be another tool to add to your belt. You have to use prior performance to predict future performance. If that number is 300W, but you don’t have the ‘mental fortitude’ to ride at 250W for more than 20 minutes then how are you going to do it for a few hours?
I realize this is a stupid question. I further realize the loudest answer will be “do an FTP test.” I’m going to ask it anyway.
I just bought a new-to-me powermeter and am trying to figure out how to use it. I’ll have 4 months to play around on it and do many tests after CdA, but I want to use it to pace Idaho as well. Unfortunately, we’re <5 weeks from race day and I’m nearing the end of my final build phase. I don’t think I have the legs or mental fortitude to perform a true FTP test. What I have on the schedule are mile repeats.
Ummm - I would NOT recommend pacing an IM bike off of 120-150 seconds of effort. Seriously. You’re trying to extrapolate a 2 minute effort into 300-360 minutes?!? Maybe OK if you are trying to pace 20 minutes of effort…
2x20’s with little rest (2-3 minutes) will NOT leave you wrecked. Take the total power for the entire 42-43 minutes…boom FTP (close enough). I’d say do it one time to confirm your estimate (you’ll probably not pace/even power correctly the first time) and then do it 5-7 days later and hold that estimate for each trial. If you can’t hold it, it may be slightly too high. If it’s “easy”…FTP may be a little higher.
FWIW, I can hold ~150% FTP for 120 seconds, ~125% FTP for mile repeats (depending on # of repeats, heat, rest, hydration…).
The 3 minute test would be over quicker but I’m not sure it takes less ‘mental fortitude’. It’s an all-out effort and not any fun. I would rather do a 20 min test.
All right! All right! I’ll do a test! Buncha jerks…
The main reason I didn’t want to do a 20/30/60 (gasp!) min test, admittedly, was because it’s about to storm here and I didn’t want to get halfway done with it and turn around; doing repeats would at least give me some data to extrapolate. The “mental fortitude” comment concerned the fact that I’m training right on the edge of over-reaching right now, as is typical and required for a well-written training plan. Sure I can HTFU and do a 20 min TT, that’s not the problem. The problem is, since I’m still tired from yesterday’s run, and Saturday’s century ride (during which I went too hard), and Thursday’s 17 mile fartlek, I have no optimism that whatever numbers I get will be accurate. I have a lot of fatigue in my legs this time of the year, so I assumed that doing a true test would give me artificially low numbers.
And FTR: I SAID I was going to do one anyway… in the Peak period! I just wanted a formula to plug a 3 minute test into to get a rough estimate on which to pace this weekend’s 100 miler, not to give myself and end-all-be-all pace window for Ironman. And, need I point out, nobody has given me that formula yet…
All right! All right! I’ll do a test! Buncha jerks…
The main reason I didn’t want to do a 20/30/60 (gasp!) min test, admittedly, was because it’s about to storm here and I didn’t want to get halfway done with it and turn around; doing repeats would at least give me some data to extrapolate. The “mental fortitude” comment concerned the fact that I’m training right on the edge of over-reaching right now, as is typical and required for a well-written training plan. Sure I can HTFU and do a 20 min TT, that’s not the problem. The problem is, since I’m still tired from yesterday’s run, and Saturday’s century ride (during which I went too hard), and Thursday’s 17 mile fartlek, I have no optimism that whatever numbers I get will be accurate. I have a lot of fatigue in my legs this time of the year, so I assumed that doing a true test would give me artificially low numbers.
And FTR: I SAID I was going to do one anyway… in the Peak period! I just wanted a formula to plug a 3 minute test into to get a rough estimate on which to pace this weekend’s 100 miler, not to give myself and end-all-be-all pace window for Ironman. And, need I point out, nobody has given me that formula yet…
you can do it on the trainer, no rain problems in there.
Also, dont do any test; why dont you use this weekend’s 100 miler to help give you pace ideas for the ironman 112 miler?
First off outside of what everyone else is saying there is a decent way to estimate FTP from a 3 minute effort. It is not a 3 minute evenly paced effort though. If you pedal every pedal stroke as hard as physically possible the entire 3 minutes your power will look like this:
Would I solely use this number to plan my training? Absolutely not. It would just be another tool to add to your belt. You have to use prior performance to predict future performance. If that number is 300W, but you don’t have the ‘mental fortitude’ to ride at 250W for more than 20 minutes then how are you going to do it for a few hours?
That’s actually the protocol shown in the study the OP linked to…and the researchers found it correlated to CP to within 5-6W…that’s pretty good, actually. Interesting.
Personally, I’d just do a 3 minute test and a 20 minute test and then find the slope of the Work vs. time plot (a la Monod) to figure out the Critical Power (FTP estimate).
The easy answer, as voiced by many, is to HTFU and do the 20min test! I can’t imagine how it could mess up your training at this stage, and for whatever tiny cost, accuracy has huge benefits.
What is the dependance of the monod equation to whether or not you have TypeIIA or TypeIIB muscles? I would think that would play a factor when you consider the decay rate of the energy created during the short term interval.
I just wanted a formula to plug a 3 minute test into to get a rough estimate on which to pace this weekend’s 100 miler, not to give myself and end-all-be-all pace window for Ironman. And, need I point out, nobody has given me that formula yet…