Ephedra--a bad rap on good supplement!

Triathlon Forum
1

Just any product must be used with a little common sense. It funny though most people have none when it comes to anything they can put in their mouth. Is aspirin good long term–no. Is taking any king of blood thinner like aspirin good during a tri or a marathon–NO. Is taking anything anymore good for you–NO.

Pretty curious at the thoughts of some people who are 6’5’’ and 280 and out in 75 degree, humid weather taking ephedra and probably not drinking water and die from heat stroke. Now ephedra will get another black mark against a quality supplement. This guy would have gone with or without ephedra.

Drinking a gallon or more of water everyday will help your body regulate itself. It is amazing thing the body–give it what it needs and it will do everything on its own.

On a serious liability note consult a sport med. person on everything that you take if it is questionable. Be responsible–one phone to a sports med person could save your life. Don’t take what you read or what you hear on this forum as gospel.

I live in MI and feel somewhat bad for the people on the East coast–it missed us by a 100 miles south–too bad.

3

Are you kidding me? Ephedra has killed more than just the athletes that you hear about on the news. You remember those miracle “diet” pills that had ephedra in it. Well some people who started taking them up and had a heart attack/stroke. No extra working out, no dehydration. For some people Ephedra is dangerous stuff and you won’t know if it is dangerous for you until you are six feet under.

Stay away from it.

4 
Just because your congressman says it is doesn't make it so.  Millions of people are using a form of it everyday--three times a day and are not suffering anything but weight loss or increased energy.

Where is illegal at? You can buy it anywhere and you can even buy it in pure ephedra at the local Rite Aid.

5

Ephedra, which is sold as a supplement contains ephedrine. They are not the same. One is just a trade name/ plant name.This is bad stuff if you are an athlete. Obviously Matt, you need to check out the list of doping/ banned substances on the ITU/ UCI / WADA / IOC’s websites. Ephedrine is illegal if the levels exceed more than 10ug/mL (that is micrograms per milliltre). Pseudoephedrine (ephedrine’s “little” brother) is illegal if the levels are above 25ug/mL. There is not a lot to play with here. Watch out here! Please.

The dopingcontrols in this country and in triathlon stinks. There is rarely a positive test, and the way some people describe their regimen, it seems they pop these pills like candy.

Eph. is also the main ingredient in ECA. A stacking of eph. caffeine and aspirin. This stuff works, but stay away! I heard of a guy that dropped 10lbs in a week…

Most people don’t know about these things. Therefore it’s our responsibility as athletes to educate ourselves.

Eph will increase your heartrate, blood pressure and dilate the bloodvessels. How do you think they make speed? (Amphetamine) It is a very simple chemical procedure that will convert ephedrine to amphetamine. They are so similar, both in chemical structure and effect, that you can say that eph is just a milder form of speed…

Again, just because you can buy it in the store does not make it less harmful. Would the same argument hold for Androstenodiene? The metabolical pathway may convert it into testosterone etc…

The bad thing about ephedra (the supplement) is also that it contains a lot of other ingredients that you may not know what are. That is always the problem with someone who advertises that “This stuff works!” OF course it works, but you will be banned from the sport for 3months to 2 years… Is it worth it. Not being able to compete, and having a stained record for all to see?

Regards from an elite triathlete and chemist.

6

Ephedra is dangerous. It is banned by the IOC, US Anti-Doping Agency, NFL, NCAA, and so many others. Some ban it entirely while others set an upper limit of 10 micrograms per milliliter. It is the most widely used weight-loss supplement, and also the supplement with the highest rate of side effects, including death. It is often packaged with caffeine, which can exacerbate the side effects. If you are in triathlon, you do not need to risk your life with this. The old-fashioned method of burning more calories than you take in can perhaps take longer, but is much safer. If you are still not sure, do your own research. This stuff is dangerous.

7

So Matt, do you just own stock in a company that sells Ephedra, or do you work for them also?

9

Under US Anti Doping and WADA under which USAT operates Ephedra is listed as a prohibited Stimulant
under section 1 Prohibited Classes A. Stimulants see table 2

http://www.usantidoping.org/prohibited_sub/guide.asp

so it is illegal under USAT competition rules

10

Had no idea USAT had it banned. But does that mean that it is not safe. And if it was so unsafe than how can our Government allow that it be sold over the counter? Makes no sense to kill our own people slowly.

I did not mean to offend anyone–guess I need to dig alittle deeper than I already have.

Even now we might not agree on things–let us all be a little polite on this forum. If I wasn’t I will defintely try in the future. Name calling doesn’t help people learn. If I was ignorant to this subject, I definetly appreciate the helpful input. I will do more reading and try and form a new opinion on the subject.

11

First, let me get a couple things out in the open:

  • I do not work for, own, or rep for a company that manufactures or sells and ephedra/ephedrine product.
  • I do not own stock in any company that manufactures or sells any ephedra/ephedrine product.
  • I have used, but do not currently use, supplements that contain any form of stimulant (though I still drink a Mountain Dew in the morning).
  • I am not a doctor or pharmacist, but I do read a lot of trade and medical journals.
  • I agree that ephedrine products have no place in the regimen of any endurance athlete, and any usage related to competition is ilegal, and constitutes a lack of good judgement on the part of the athlete.

So with that out in the open, I have to say that the current attention that ephadrine supplements is garnering is very much a witch hunt, most likely financed by the pharmaceutical comanies and their lobby. Sure, there are a lot of sleazy things that are happening in the supplement industry, from marketing useless supplements and marketing them as the next “legal steroid,” to tainting protein powders with light steroid doasages and/or creatine to give the user a false sense of effectiveness. These comanies are not regulated, as long as they market “dietary supplements.” That can be both good and bad. Regulation has caused a lot of good stuff to be slow to market, as well as never making it to market because of the extensive testing (and testing, and testing) that must be conducted.

The question to ask is: What’s next after ephedrine?

I’ve done some searches on case studies of nagative ephedrine side effects, and in almost every case, there were common problems:

  • The user did not seek medical supervision or prescreening prior to using the supplements to ferret out risk factors.
  • The user did not ramp the dosages to guage reactions.
  • The user either sustained the full dosage for longer than recommended, or exceeded the label dosage.

So, if ephedrine is so bad, why isn’t alcohol being as aggressively pursued? Hmmm? Maybe TAX DOLLARS?

According to the DAWN (Drug Abuse Warning Network) Detailed Emergency Department Tables of 2000, ephedrine seems to be very safe when compared to other drugs. These numbers reflect the number of mentions each drug received in regard to emergency room visits. Here’s a quick list:

Drug Name - Number of Mentions

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) - 33,613

Alcohol-in-combination - 204,524

Ibuprofen (Advil) - 17,923

Aspirin - 15,657

Fluoxetine (Prozac) - 7,938

OTC sleep aids-Sominex/Nytol - 6,609

Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - 6,270

Naproxen (Aleve) - 5,080

Caffeine - 1,674

Chlorpheniramine/aspirin - 1,116

Pseudoephedrine - 948
(A decongestant used in every cold/sinus formula around)

Ephedrine - 1,057

According to the DAWN Annual Medical Examiner Data of 1999, ephedrine seems to be much safer than many of the commonly used drugs. These numbers reflect the number of deaths per year in which a medical examiner mentioned the drug as a possible cause of death.

Drug Name - Number of Mentions

Alcohol-in-combination - 3,916

Codeine - 1,395

Marijuana - 670

Acetaminophen - 452

Lidocaine - 384

Fluoxetine - 305

Dextromethorphan - 132
(Used in MANY cold formulas as a cough suppressant)

Chlorpheniramine - 117
(Also used in many cold and sinus formulas as an antihistamine)

Aspirin - 104

Pseudoephedrine - 67

Ephedrine - 59

So, in short, commonly used drugs, even those given to children can be more dangerous, according to these statistics, than ephedrine and caffeine.

12

According to the DAWN Annual Medical Examiner Data of 1999, ephedrine seems to be much safer than many of the commonly used drugs. These numbers reflect the number of deaths per year in which a medical examiner mentioned the drug as a possible cause of death.

Drug Name - Number of Mentions

Aspirin - 104

Ephedrine - 59

So, in short, commonly used drugs, even those given to children can be more dangerous, according to these statistics, than ephedrine and caffeine.

Ahhh, statistics. How many MILLIONS of households in America have a bottle of aspirin in them? How many THOUSANDS of households in America have an ephedrine product in them? How many of the aspirin deaths were suicides? How many of the ephedrine deaths were suicides? The above statistics clearly prove to me that ephedrine is much more dangerous than aspirin and the others. A meaningful statistic would show fatalities / non-fatal uses.

michael

13

I suppose it wouldn’t really matter what I posted for supporting statistics, would it.

14

Tylenol is the perfect example of why regulations are a good thing

Tylenol came to market before the modern era of FDA testing

One of the modern day testing protocols require that none of the metabolites of a drug have toxicity. This is done with a very very simple test using animal liver.

To make a long story short. With relatively normal doses you can do serious serious serious damage to your liver. If you are a drniker, user of barbituates, the toxic dose is much lower (relates to the liver p450 system)

Had tylenol come to market during the era of meodern teting I am confident in saying that it wold have never never come to market.

so the moral of the story is if you are an alcoholic and have a headache, don’t take tylenol.

In reference to the statistics, you also have to realize that this is pure numbers not percentages. If you want an idea of toxicity you would have to compare usage to adverse reactions. Tylenol and the analgesics are much more widely used than any of the other medications so it is natural that there are going to be lots of adverse reactions.

15

You had no idea did you… When you are an athlete, IF you are an athelete that is, you are supposed to know what is illegal or not. You are responsible for knowing the rules. If it requires reading stuff that’s hard to find, so be it… If it requires reading and trying to understand scientific language, so be it…

And do you honestly believe your own b.s.? This government are at the verge of war on the OTHER side of the world (again) because of oil, which of course they deny, but everyone with more than just three brain cells understand. And you think that the government won’t do things that are harmful to you??? Wake up and smell the cappucino man! Time to educate yourself… Hop OFF the bike and read some newspapers. Perhaps watch some other news than FOX and CNN… That’s my $0.02.

16

brider, It DOES matter what you post for statistics supporting your position. As you’ve found out, statistics may not lie, but you have to understand what they are telling you before you make blanket assumptions regarding them. The statistics you quote are fairly raw, counting only cases vs drugs. There is no mention of contributing factors. Was it a reaction to the drug? An overdose? Improper mixing of drugs? Improper use? etc. etc. As another poster noted, the # cases/# usages would be a more accurate way of comparing any of these products. The number of people using ephedra/ephedrine is miniscule compared to the number of people using acetamenophen, ibuprophen, or aspirin.

Ephedra/ephedrine is specifically dangerous to the type of people posting on this forum because it directly and NEGATIVELY influences important performance factors like hydration and normal heart rhythms. The risks far outweigh any performance gains.

A healthy, well thought out diet plan will be far more beneficial and effective for weight loss and energy.

17

If you can figure out how to train, and if you can figure out how to arrive at the race location, you can learn the rules. It’s not very complicated:

http://www.usatriathlon.org/rules.htm

http://www.usantidoping.org/prohibited_sub/guide.asp

There you go, just about all the rules are laid out there. Read it- know it.

18

The number of people using ephedra/ephedrine is miniscule compared to the number of people using acetamenophen, ibuprophen, or aspirin.

Not as miniscule as one might believe, when you consider cold and flu remedies, many alergy medications, as well as the plethora of weight-loss aids.

Ephedra/ephedrine is specifically dangerous to the type of people posting on this forum because it directly and NEGATIVELY influences important performance factors like hydration and normal heart rhythms. The risks far outweigh any performance gains.

A healthy, well thought out diet plan will be far more beneficial and effective for weight loss and energy.

I don’t deny this at all. My purpose in posting the statistics was to point out that the attention that ephedrine is receiving from the media and the government agencies (the pending ban) is far beyond it’s danger relative to other over-the-counter (and in many cases government subsidized) substances.

Also, while every one is attacking the listing of substances, how about the lost of “victims?” I’ve done some searching on case studies. Those common threads amoungst their stories are there for any one to see. These “seemingly healthy” people who have adverse reactions. They do not pre-screen for risk factors, often ignore early warning signs (one in particular ignored seizures and continued to take his Xenadrine for another 3 weeks), and don’t take an intelligent approach to supplementation. Sorry, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these people.

19

I know that the US is often criticized for its litigious society and for erring on the side of governmental regulation than personal responsibility.

However I am not against a possible ban or further control of ephedrine. If the government finds that something is so potentially dangerous they have an obligation to remove it. It is possible to use such things in a judicious manner but from a public health stand point you are comparing relief of cold versus death, there is no comparison there.

And yes it is possible to heed the warnings if there warnings were much clearer. So if you were advocating a intermediate step instead of total banning I think that a good intermediate step would be cigarette pack like labels on the side of these supplements.

I also agree that the dangers are probably on par with other over the counter drugs.

LESSON TO ALL. When you go to the doctor tell them ALL OF THE MEDICATIONS YOU ARE TAKING incluing over the counter as well as recreational drugs. Giving your doctor this information has life or death consequences.

I also agree that prescreening in general is not taken seriously. This goes for exercising too. But that is another thread entirely

20

And if it was so unsafe than how can our Government allow that it be sold over the counter? Makes no sense to kill our own people slowly.

umm, cigarettes? Or are we going to argue as to whether they are actually bad for you or not?

21

I’m not even going to give my opinion on this subject…

What I want to know is are athletes using ephedra before or during races? I haven’t seen any information that says it has a performance enhancing effect for longer endurance athletes. Am I missing something? Or are we only talking about athletes taking it on a daily basis?

Jeff

22

I don’t think you’d see any appreciable number of long-endurance athletes using it for competition – counter productive. But for middle distance, I’m sure it happens. Keys up the mind, aggression (a little bit), focus. Even then, I doubt there’s a significant number of athletes using it for competition.