I’m about to receive my new Cervelo p5 2022 model with Ultegra Di2 12 speed (disc brake).
Need to choose a wheelset as I will be selling the shallow stock ones.
Currently have Enve 5.6 on my dogma f12 road bike and really like them. Thinking of going with something around the 80mm depth mark for the p5.
Options:
Enve SES 7.8 which I can get custom built with white ENVE decals to match the black and white Cervelo colours, dt swiss 240 exp hub, CX sprint spokes at the rear for extra stiffness and CX ray spokes at the front. Really like them, they are 71mm front and 78mm rear, so not really 80mm but wouldn’t mind that necessarily. They also have very good weight around 1600/1650g approx for the wheelset. What doesn’t quite convince me is the internal rim width at 19mm (quite narrow), optimised for 25mm tyres. External rim width is 29mm and 27.5mm (rear and front, don’t remember which one is which). The external rim
Width is great, but the internal doesn’t allow you to drop tyre pressure much. 21/22mm May be quite a bit nicer but not sure… very good reviews, apparently very fast and stable in crosswinds.
I’ll be running 25mm gp5k clincher with latex tube or TT specific tyres. Price is about £2.7k
HED VANQUISH RC8 Pro: 80mm depth front and rear. In house hed hubs with pawl system and steel bearings (I prefer the dt Swiss exp Mechanism as it’s so easy to Maintain). External rim width 30mm for front and rear. Internal rim width is 21mm so a bit more “modern†than Enve, allowing to drop some good tyre pressure, at least by 5psi. No customs decals, hubs or spokes so a bit less personalised. Very good reviews here too, maybe the 80mm front could create a Bit more instability. Weight is a bit worse than ENVE at about 1800g. Price is about £2.2k, so around £500 less than Enve.
other options:
80mm front and rear DISC wheel (either Enve, or HED or aerocoach). Enve and aerocoach have incredibly narrow internal rim width (18.5mm) and also external rim width (about 25mm), so not quite optimised for 25mm tires. HED has the same 21mm internal and 30mm external rim width as per the RC8 PRO wheelset… weight is comparable (Enve heaviest, HED in the middle, aerocoach lightest, but they are all quite close anyway).
Would I need a rear disc wheel? For everyday training , I feel I wouldn’t need a disc and would be better off with just simple deep section wheels… is that corrrect? Is a disc only needed for full out races? When does it truly make sense to use a disc wheel?
Any thoughts of any of this? What’s peoples views on these wheels choice? Should I get the slightly more updated HED wheelset (due to better internal rim width) or stick with Enve reliability, reputation and testing?
I have the GP6’s on my Tarmac, but used to have them on my P-Series Disc until I got a set of AeroCoach Zephyr’s and an Aeox Disc for races. I’m not sure what you mean about “not optimized for 25mm tires”, because the AeroCoach wheels are absolutely optimized for 25’s. It’s what they recommend. I take the aero penalty and run 28’s on both wheelsets. If I could do it again, I probably would have been more patient and gotten a set of RC8’s plus the HED Disc, but stock was incredibly limited last year. I didn’t want to want that long for Enve’s or HED’s so I went with AeroCoach, since they had the shortest lead time.
Both the HED’s and Zephyr’s feel very stable in cross winds. Especially when I’m running the rear disc.
My only gripe with the Zephyr’s is the stock valve cover. They include this heavy threaded through-bolt that keeps the carbon fiber cover on. It’s so hard to thread on, and forget about getting it off if you flat out on the road. I got some of their 3D printed snap covers and painted them black. Much better solution and IMO they should be free with the wheels.
If you’re just between the HED’s and Enve’s, I’d go with HED. I don’t think they’re any less reliable than Enve.
I’m old and old school. I train on Hed Belgium C+ rims on American Classic hubs with CX Rays. 25ext/21int with 25mm GP4000s. Race wheels are Reynolds RZR92s with a cover and Vittoria 23 tubies.
For everyday training , I feel I wouldn’t need a disc and would be better off with just simple deep section wheels… is that corrrect? You don’t need a disc wheel for training.
Is a disc only needed for full out races? I don’t understand the use of the term “need†or what a “full out race†is. You don’t “need†a disc wheel. Isn’t ever race full out�
When does it truly make sense to use a disc wheel? Virtually Always in a race.
If financially feasible, I would buy three wheels-a set in the 60-80mm depth range and a rear disc to pair with the front wheel for races.
I am a full blown HED fan boy, I currently have set of first gen Vanquish 6s, Ardennes blacks and Big Aluminum deals. previously had Jet 6+ blacks and non blacks. Sold the blacks and the non black J6s were killed by a pick up while I was riding them.
The only failure on a hed wheel I have had is after a truck ran into them…
I have seen one other HED wheels go to shit and that wheel had 30,000 miles or more on it.
I train all the time with a disc on weekend longer rides, and race with the disc.
The disc is super fun to ride, especially in an area with other cyclists - here in Norcal I regularly get a lot of compliments from drivers and riders on my bike - just last weekend, a car with 2 brodudes pulled up at the stoplight and said “dudddde - sick bike!!!”
The disc is also fast, which also makes it fun.
However the disc does come with real minor annoyances that aren’t an issue in racing, but can be in training.
Most discs have a small cutout for the valve. You will almost certainly need a special pump head to reliably pump up your disc, like the $100 Hiro chuck head, which works great.
You definitely have to practice flat changes beforehand. Definitely. Unlike regular wheels, the disc cutout causes small angle problems with CO2 and pumps, and it’s really, really easy to lose all your CO2 because of it. Or your air simply won’t go in even though it seems mounted right. Flats on the road with the disc are def annoying.
You might run into small ring-small ring contact with the deraileur on your disc which can scratch and damage your disc. I just don’t ride in that combo, but I don’t take my discs into the mountains.
I’ll also add that bike handling with the rear disc has been a total non-issue for me, as many of posters with discs have mentioned on this forum. The FRONT wheel is where the crosswinds can become dicey, but you get used to it with practice - the disc rear wheel hasn’t given me problems.
I am seriously considering buying a pair of 88mm front/rear wheels for training just to avoid the annoyances of inflating the disc and dealing with flats with the disc. (Would also save my precious disc wheel from any damage prior to race day.)
I am a long time HED user/fan, so I am a little biased towards the Vanquish. I also saw they just started offereing a Vanquish Performance model that is $1600 for the set, though I guess they only have a 40 and 60.
I am a fan of matching front and rear brands, I think the HED and the less expensive AeroCoach are spoked wheels with a permanent cover. This isn’t as fancy as a solid disc, but it is probably a superior design in terms of lateral stiffness and vertical compliance. The lenticular shape of these wheels also tends to have less drag in crosswinds. Both are also a lot cheaper than the 2700$ ENVE.
Seems like they’re made in Ogden, Utah (at least the rims and wheelsets according to that page). Sounds like most other parts (forks, handlebars) are made in Asia.
I have both HED Jet 6’s (rim brake model from 2017), and Enve 7.8 (disc brake 2021). Both work extremely well, I have had zero issues with them, from a truing standpoint, tire mounting, durability, braking, whatever. With HED wheels, you do have to be cautious because the aero shell is a fairing, it is not structural (meaning you shouldn’t hang them by the rim for storage for instance). Obviously air molecules don’t care if the shape they are flowing over is structural or not, so it doesn’t matter from an aero standpoint. I can’t recommend one over the other, in my eyes they are equivalent. ENVE are made in Utah. Mine took 8 months to arrive last year, but perhaps times have changed. HED wins from a cost standpoint in general however.
Thanks! I’m inclined towards the HED RC8 PRO as they have 21mm internal and 30mm external rim width, whereas Enve 7.8 still have 19mm internal. With HED I could lower tyre pressure a little bit more, using 25mm clincher with latex tube.
I might invest in a HED disc wheel later on too, depending on need.
Do you mean the 80mm ARC DICUT from dt Swiss? I can see that’s 20mm int and 32mm ext, looks good too and has DT Swiss 180 or 240 exp hub… not bad… quite cheaper too…
Yea, I’ve got the 1100s and they are exceptional. Great in crosswinds and really stable with a gorgeous finish. I’m looking at the Swissside for gravel but their Hadron wheels are awesome too. Swissside does the aero work for DT Swiss I believe. I’m fortunate to have DT Swiss, ENVE and HED wheels in different configurations and you can’t go wrong with any of them.