I’m trying to decide between these two race wheelsets. The price difference will be $835. They will be used exclusively on my tri bike, and I normally gravitate toward hilly races. The Enves are a bit lighter and much much wider.
Any thoughts would be welcome. I’ve never ridden any wheel from either of these two manufacturers.
Thanks,
-Colin
EDIT: Should specify that I’m talking about the disc brake models.
I’m trying to decide between these two race wheelsets. The price difference will be $835. They will be used exclusively on my tri bike, and I normally gravitate toward hilly races. The Enves are a bit lighter and much much wider.
Any thoughts would be welcome. I’ve never ridden any wheel from either of these two manufacturers.
Thanks,
-Colin
I have had both sets, they both are awesome. The ENVE are not actually that light. I have had two sets of 7.8 SES in my hands this year. Both were about 100-120 grams over weight. I can pull up the weight if you want. I recently got a HED JET 6+ Black and it came in at about 720 grams for the front and this with the textured aluminum brake track.
They had some crazy deals back in Q3-Q4 at Competitive Cyclist where you could get HED JET+ 6 Wheelset, full wheelset for $799, brand new with warranty, but it looks like that is done now. As far as slightly used you will like be able to save at least $1050 or more on the JET+. Here is a set of 6s for $949, but still a far cry from the $799 that Competitive had them at. The problem with Enve is they are the hot wheel and you will have to pay a premium for them.
I haven’t used the Enves, but I’ve had HED Jets (and stingers, and H3’s), and I currently have a Zipp Super9 and 808…
If I were buying again, and had the decision you are faced with, that price diff, there is no question I’d go with the HED’s.
Yeah, hot for sure. If I get the enves I’ll have my shop build them, $1900 with my team discount. No way could I afford full price.
Yeah, hot for sure. If I get the enves I’ll have my shop build them, $1900 with my team discount. No way could I afford full price.
Ok, I assume that is for the 240s?
Correct.
You know, I hadn’t actually considered the zipps to tell you the truth. You like those better than the heds? I think the main reason is I’d like something in the 60-70mm range in the front, while the only zipp options are 40 and 80, nothing in between.
You know, I hadn’t actually considered the zipps to tell you the truth. You like those better than the heds? I think the main reason is I’d like something in the 60-70mm range in the front, while the only zipp options are 40 and 80, nothing in between.
Honestly, performance wise, I’d say no real difference. I like the way the zipps look more, and I got a killer deal on them second hand here on the forum.
ENVEs are hands down the better wheels. The bearings in the hubs of the HEDs suck.
ENVEs are hands down the better wheels. The bearings in the hubs of the HEDs suck.
I’ve had both. Both wheelsets are aero so you won’t be giving much up selecting either. It is more in the use cases that you may decide. I hang my bike by the wheels and transport them strapped by the wheels, so having a solid wheelset versus a faring cover is my choice for going with the Enve 7.8’s. However, the aluminum brake track on the Heds are much better in wet conditions, so if you plan to ride/race in the hills - corners - and rain, you’ll appreciate the Heds more.
I only leave one set of wheels on all the time and don’t switch out, so my single-purpose wheelset choice was the Enve’s for that durability over the faring of the Heds.
You know, I hadn’t actually considered the zipps to tell you the truth. You like those better than the heds? I think the main reason is I’d like something in the 60-70mm range in the front, while the only zipp options are 40 and 80, nothing in between.
A Zipp 404 is 58mm rim depth, not 40.4 or something. Just sayin’.
I’ve had both. Both wheelsets are aero so you won’t be giving much up selecting either. It is more in the use cases that you may decide. I hang my bike by the wheels and transport them strapped by the wheels, so having a solid wheelset versus a faring cover is my choice for going with the Enve 7.8’s. However, the aluminum brake track on the Heds are much better in wet conditions, so if you plan to ride/race in the hills - corners - and rain, you’ll appreciate the Heds more.
I only leave one set of wheels on all the time and don’t switch out, so my single-purpose wheelset choice was the Enve’s for that durability over the faring of the Heds.
You make a very good point about clamping. Frankly, I never even thought about it, but I did clamp my HED JET 6 for a good 3-4k miles. I wonder what they say about that.
ENVEs are hands down the better wheels. The bearings in the hubs of the HEDs suck.
Okay, so I guess I was a bit harsh on the HEDs. The bearings don’t “suck”, they are just no where close to what you should be getting for the price. The quality control/tolerances of the bearings in the hub aren’t really there. If you were to test the hubs (or just give them a spin) of zips, DT, HED, ENVE, etc. you can tell which spin best. My bike shop actually refuses to recommend HED builds to people because of the hubs. Once again, they’re not bad, they’re just nowhere close to as nice as the rim. (I’m only bashing the HED hubs, if you want to throw DTs on HED rims you’ll be in for a treat.)
As for the ENVEs being the god of all wheels, there are a few reasons. A) The main one is the focus of the company. You can even see it in their name, “ENVE Composites”. They put a ton of focus into the types and quality of the composites (carbon) they are using rather than just thinking of themselves as a bike wheel company. The tolerances of the wheels are extremely small. (thickness, radius, etc.) The reason Chinese carbon wheels suck is the reason that you want to buy ENVEs - consistency of the material. This consistency makes the wheels noticeably stiffer than any other wheel. (They essentially make the roundest, most consistently thick wheel)
B) They approach aerodynamics differently than other companies. Zipp focus on minimizing the size of vortices created by the wheel, in turn, making the wheel less disruptive to the air. Profile Design engineers their wheels to be the most aero at the most common yaw angles experienced by riders. ENVE, however, designs their wheels to “funnel” air around the bike and rider. It’s a much more holistic approach that results in decreased drag forces. It’s similar to the way a supercavitating torpedo works. (minus the phase change)
If I had to rank wheels, I’d separate them into these tiers: (feel free to critic, except for Flo, I hate Flo)
Tier 1: ENVE
Tier 1.5 Zipp (They’re close to ENVE)
Tier 2 HED, Profile Design, Knight, Vision, Reynolds, Bontrager (other name brand wheels)
Tier 3 Roval, Oval, novatec, Williams (essentially race wheels that come with bikes, house brands) (just as aero as Tier 2, but hubs suck)
Tier 4 Boyd, Flo (you name it) (just as aero as Tier 2 & 3, not stiff, heavy, hubs suck)
Why the hate for Flo? My 60/90 have served me well. That said, I’ve never ridden anything else. Can you contrast the benefits of Tier 1 relative to Tier 4? For example, what differences would I notice riding an Enve wheelset? Is there a measurable performance delta?
Scott
As for the ENVEs being the god of all wheels, there are a few reasons.
You missed a key one. They are hawt. Really, really hawt.
So Tony Martin won the world TT championship this year on a Tier 3 front wheel and a Tier 2 rear wheel?
As for the ENVEs being the god of all wheels, there are a few reasons. A) The main one is the focus of the company. You can even see it in their name, “ENVE Composites”.
HAHA!
This is one of the most absurd things I’ve read on this forum in a long time. You’re a marketers wet dream.
My bike shop actually refuses to recommend HED builds to people because of the hubs.
I have a local bike shop here that tried to talk me out of a Di2 build on the basis that electrical systems go bad sometimes.
Have you considered the possibility that your bike shop is run by the same type of geniuses?
Why the hate for Flo? My 60/90 have served me well. That said, I’ve never ridden anything else. Can you contrast the benefits of Tier 1 relative to Tier 4? For example, what differences would I notice riding an Enve wheelset? Is there a measurable performance delta?
Scott
Flo wheels are fine if that’s what you ride. If you enjoy them, then power to you. The reason that I don’t like them is because they’re marketed as reasonably priced high end race wheels. Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather ride flows than aluminum training wheels, but there are much better options. I would say that I dislike Flo wheels for three reasons. 1) They’re heavy. I ride in PA and do a lot of racing in NY. I like to climb, and heavy things don’t. 2) The hubs really aren’t anything special. Next time you’re in a bike shop, find a Zipp, ENVE, or Tier 2 wheel and give it a spin with your hand. You’ll be amazed by how long they spin for. (Giant wheels are also decent, they use DT hubs) 3) They’re not that stiff. If you haven’t ridden anything better then you probably won’t notice the lateral yielding. It’s usually only felt while climbing out of the saddle or sprinting.
To answer your question about the difference you’d feel if you were to ride ENVEs, you would definitely feel a difference. Don’t get me wrong, Flo wheels are pretty aero, but ENVE (and even Zipp) went all out aero. When you reach higher speeds (21+ mph) the wheels just keep you at that speed with what feels like much less effort. (deep section wheels of course) You probably won’t feel too much difference in terms of how far you roll (“frictionlessness” of the hubs) unless you have DT240, DT350, ENVE, or Chris King Hubs. In that case you may feel like you roll pretty far. You will definitely feel a difference when it comes to the responsiveness of the bike. With lighter, stiffer wheels, the bike will feel much more twitchy. (in a good way) When you put your foot down on the pedal, you’ll really feel yourself lurch into motion.