Endurance fuel & hydration sugar ratios... and fuel science and stuff

What sugar ratios have you heard are being used in fuel products you’ve seen on the market? Or what’s the ratio of the one you use?

Some companies promote their glucose:fructose ratio in their marketing material. Since marketing copy is my absolute favorite…You might be able to help me find info faster.

Examples that come to my mind for 1:0.8 ratio are:
maurten, sis beta fuel, maybe skratch superfuel (now ‘super high-carb’), I think maybe all theirs are 1:0.8. Nduranz
2:1 glucose to fructose ratio examples:
Powerbar isoactive is 2:1Gatorade used to promote 2:1 for their original and endurance mixes. Torq (they say they’re 2:1 but their nutrition facts math comes out to closer to 3:2, which is better anyway)
(no affiliations)

Maybe I’ll make this into a regularly updated thread like that bottle thread… no guarantees.

This is my attempt at crowdsourcing some of this info so that I can aggregate it somewhere/somehow usefully for everyone.

Startup workloads are eye-watering! Very much appreciate anyone’s help here, and links are always SUPER appreciated but not mandatory at all. (actually startup workloads are eye-drying…cuz screens cause less blinks, plus long hours, you get the picture)

I’ve used 80% maltodextrin i.e. glucose polymer and 20% fructose for a number of years. I find any more fructose than this too be too sweet for my tastes. Straight up sucrose is also over the top sweetness wise for me as well. I typically go with 8 grams of sodium/liter in the mix. I use this mix for marathon canoe races at concentrations for 10 to 15% depending on ambient temperatures.

YMMV,

Hugh

Do you mean 8 grams of sodium citrate per liter? Or 8 grams of sodium chloride per liter (which is still a massive amount of sodium per liter)? Tell me more. This seems like a lot.

Do you mean 8 grams of sodium citrate per liter? Or 8 grams of sodium chloride per liter (which is still a massive amount of sodium per liter)? Tell me more. This seems like a lot.

Oops brain fart alert. Usually, 8 milligrams per gram of CHO. It’s been a long winter;) Therefore 1.2 grams of sodium per liter when using a 15% solution.

I can rest easy now.

I had tried the early versions of SIS Beta Fuel, with the 2:1 ratio, didn’t do well with it once it got warm. The newer 1:0.8 ratio worked much better for me, gut distress-wise. BUT, after seeing your video on table sugar, I’ve experimented a bit and settled on a homemade 1:0.66 ratio by using 60g of sugar w/ 15g of maltodextrin, and some lemon flavoring from truelemon.com in a bottle per hour dosage.

I had tried the early versions of SIS Beta Fuel, with the 2:1 ratio, didn’t do well with it once it got warm. The newer 1:0.8 ratio worked much better for me, gut distress-wise. BUT, after seeing your video on table sugar, I’ve experimented a bit and settled on a homemade 1:0.66 ratio by using 60g of sugar w/ 15g of maltodextrin, and some lemon flavoring from truelemon.com in a bottle per hour dosage.

How does the lemon do with the sweetness of the drink?

I vary my ratio based on my intake and I vary my intake based on intensity & duration.

Up to 90g / hr I tend to go 2:1 to try to drive the glucose transporters as much as possible
Beyond 120g/hr I’ve had good luck with the 1:0.8 products like BetaFuel 2.0 / Flow Formula / Maurten.
I’ve also had good luck with your “speed nectar”.
Next I’ll be doing Malto + Fructose in 1:1.

The biggest benefit to “Speed Nectar” is that my 2 biggest events are in Europe and it’ll be easier to visit a store to buy a 15lb bag of Sucrose rather than smuggling a suitcase of white powder across the ocean.

I had tried the early versions of SIS Beta Fuel, with the 2:1 ratio, didn’t do well with it once it got warm. The newer 1:0.8 ratio worked much better for me, gut distress-wise. BUT, after seeing your video on table sugar, I’ve experimented a bit and settled on a homemade 1:0.66 ratio by using 60g of sugar w/ 15g of maltodextrin, and some lemon flavoring from truelemon.com in a bottle per hour dosage.

How does the lemon do with the sweetness of the drink?

I vary my ratio based on my intake and I vary my intake based on intensity & duration.

Up to 90g / hr I tend to go 2:1 to try to drive the glucose transporters as much as possible
Beyond 120g/hr I’ve had good luck with the 1:0.8 products like BetaFuel 2.0 / Flow Formula / Maurten.
I’ve also had good luck with your “speed nectar”.
Next I’ll be doing Malto + Fructose in 1:1.

The biggest benefit to “Speed Nectar” is that my 2 biggest events are in Europe and it’ll be easier to visit a store to buy a 15lb bag of Sucrose rather than smuggling a suitcase of white powder across the ocean.

Lemonade! It’s the only thing that makes the sweetness palatable. Like you, I had great luck with BetaFuel 2.0. But, when it gets to the point that you’re spending $15-$20 a ride just for glorified sugar water, alternatives look pretty appealing.

If you’re going to do maltodextrin and fructose at a 1:1 ratio, may as well just use pure sucrose. Table sugar is crazy cheap

I had tried the early versions of SIS Beta Fuel, with the 2:1 ratio, didn’t do well with it once it got warm. The newer 1:0.8 ratio worked much better for me, gut distress-wise. BUT, after seeing your video on table sugar, I’ve experimented a bit and settled on a homemade 1:0.66 ratio by using 60g of sugar w/ 15g of maltodextrin, and some lemon flavoring from truelemon.com in a bottle per hour dosage.

How does the lemon do with the sweetness of the drink?

I vary my ratio based on my intake and I vary my intake based on intensity & duration.

Up to 90g / hr I tend to go 2:1 to try to drive the glucose transporters as much as possible
Beyond 120g/hr I’ve had good luck with the 1:0.8 products like BetaFuel 2.0 / Flow Formula / Maurten.
I’ve also had good luck with your “speed nectar”.
Next I’ll be doing Malto + Fructose in 1:1.

The biggest benefit to “Speed Nectar” is that my 2 biggest events are in Europe and it’ll be easier to visit a store to buy a 15lb bag of Sucrose rather than smuggling a suitcase of white powder across the ocean.

I’ve always used defizzed Coke and Mtn Dew. It’s all fructose but seems to work well and I like the taste even when hot. I use Kroger brand Cola and Citrus Drop. At 1020 cal/2 L bottle and $1.00/2 L bottle, the Cola comes out at 1020 cal per $1.00 or $1.00/255 grams of carb or $0.0039 per gram of carb. Citrus Drop = 1140 cal/$1.00 bottle ==> $1.00/285 g carb = $0.0035/g carb. Plus, you’re getting about 330-360 mg of caffeine per 2 L bottle as a bonus!!! Very cheap and very convenient with no mixing required. :slight_smile:

Do you mean 8 grams of sodium citrate per liter? Or 8 grams of sodium chloride per liter (which is still a massive amount of sodium per liter)? Tell me more. This seems like a lot.

Hi Alex,
thanks a lot for all your input wrt to nutrition!! It helped me immensely, even just for training - I will find out for racing in summer :wink:

One question I would like to get clarity on and it relates to your comment: When you (specifically) speak about Salt/Sodium concentrations: Are the amounts that you recommend based on Sodium Chloride, Sodium Citrate or are they based on Na+ ? Given the molecular weight and molecular weight ratio differences a gram of Sodium per liter can mean very different things…

Thanks again, and I wish you a lot of success for your app and business in general.
Uli

I’ve always used defizzed Coke and Mtn Dew. It’s all fructose but seems to work well and I like the taste even when hot. I use Kroger brand Cola and Citrus Drop. At 1020 cal/2 L bottle and $1.00/2 L bottle, the Cola comes out at 1020 cal per $1.00 or $1.00/255 grams of carb or $0.0039 per gram of carb. Citrus Drop = 1140 cal/$1.00 bottle ==> $1.00/285 g carb = $0.0035/g carb. Plus, you’re getting about 330-360 mg of caffeine per 2 L bottle as a bonus!!! Very cheap and very convenient with no mixing required. :slight_smile:

BigK cola uses high fructose corn syrup (like most colas) which is roughly half glucose.

I’ve always used defizzed Coke and Mtn Dew. It’s all fructose but seems to work well and I like the taste even when hot. I use Kroger brand Cola and Citrus Drop. At 1020 cal/2 L bottle and $1.00/2 L bottle, the Cola comes out at 1020 cal per $1.00 or $1.00/255 grams of carb or $0.0039 per gram of carb. Citrus Drop = 1140 cal/$1.00 bottle ==> $1.00/285 g carb = $0.0035/g carb. Plus, you’re getting about 330-360 mg of caffeine per 2 L bottle as a bonus!!! Very cheap and very convenient with no mixing required. :slight_smile:

Big K cola uses high fructose corn syrup (like most colas) which is roughly half glucose.

Really??? I did not know that but rather I had always ass-u-me-d that it was all fructose. Did a quick Google and Wiki confirms this; it just never occurred to me that “high fructose” would contain 42-55% glucose. Anyway, thanks for pointing this out. :slight_smile:

My pleasure, and thank you.

Na+. Important question!

any comments on UCAN?

it’s proprietary-LIVSTEADYTM* cornstarch

21 grams of carb
no sugar

I’ve been using it in races for years but thinking of trying out something new.
Just wanted to know what you think about this and if you know any info??
https://ucan.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/orange-energy-powder-3-1024x1024.png

Yep, very familiar with UCAN, ‘LIVSTEADY’, formerly ‘super-starch.’

I got a little long-winded here because I know you’re a cardiologist and probably don’t mind a few details. I have appreciated your very thoughtful responses on the forum. I suspect a few other folks might find my commentary helpful here, so here goes.

You’ll be able to manage a higher carb intake rate with less risk of GI issues if you use something non-starch-based, no matter how science-y the starch is. Folks generally end up using UCAN because they’ve had a bad experience with up and down energy in training and racing. It’s been a phenomenal marketing strategy for UCAN and kudos on the marketing execution. Nothing but respect for that marketing team. Truly. They have really cornered a good chunk of the market that grew tired of the fluctuating energy levels common to all of us.

The same problem can be solved by increasing fuel intake rates with a combination of glucose and fructose, also known as “multiple transportable carbohydrates.” This has been known since at least as far back as 2000, and probably earlier, but I didn’t dig up anything earlier. The issue with the multiple transportable carbohydrate approach has always been that folks believed there were relatively low limits on total hourly carb intake rates. These beliefs mean folks don’t consume enough of the fast stuff. These beliefs in low hourly carb limits have caused lots of folks to experience the up and down energy because they’re only giving themselves little bursts of sugar here and there, when they’re burning through it by the truckload. Instead of changing fuel sources to a slower-absorbing fuel source, it’s best to consume more of the faster stuff. If you use slower-absorbing carbs, GI distress is more likely, when fueling anywhere near the known optimal carb intake rates (70-130g/hr for most people for events over three hours).

When moving from slower absorption to faster absorption sugar sources, plan to consume more of them per hour. And plan to stay well-hydrated, too. Don’t just chow down on a gel or two, without water, and hope for the best! GI issues are the first thing people experience when they make the move from UCAN to something faster, at a higher quantity. Hydration is almost always the cause of those carb-triggered GI issues.

Here’s the breakdown of the common paths I see a huge swath of consumers in the endurance nutrition market take:

Path 1: Fuel randomly. Bonk and feel terrible. Need more fuel. Consume more fuel. Get GI issues. Reduce intake rate. Feel up and down energy. Turn to something like UCAN, keto, EFS, or some other method that promotes (advertises) a more sustained, less up and down energy feel. Then they keep their fuel intake rate below what would be optimal for them, because all of those methods recommend the bottom end of optimality, at most, for carb intake rates.

Path 2: Fuel randomly. Bonk and feel terrible. Need more fuel. Consume more fuel. Get GI issues. Switch fuel source. Read lots about fueling steadily. Learn about multiple transportable carbs (glucose & fructose). Settle into a fueling practice that kinda works. Train hard. Get fitter. Still notice that there are still ups and downs in energy, even though they’re consuming 70-90g of carbs per hour. Start reading about fat oxidation and its importance. Start thinking about doing some training fasted. Read about carb periodization. Start experimenting with limited fuel intake on some rides so that you’ve got the fat burning ability you need to tough out those little lows in energy you get at 80g/hr carb intakes. Most people stop here and believe this is the way, for years. Your fitness powers you through, and you do have some fat burning adaptation from carb restriction and from simply being tough as nails and training hard.

Path 3: is really just an extension of path 2. Path 3 looks like, you’ve been carb fueling for years and it’s been working pretty well and you’re tough and fit enough to tough out the little dips in energy during racing, and that’s just endurance training and racing to you. But now you’ve read a little bit about how if you adapt to fat burning by carb restricting during some of your training, your body gives up a greater amount of carb burning ability than it gains in fat burning ability and that doesn’t feel like a good thing. You’ve read the papers from the last 5-8 years that are pointing to the fact that any carb restriction during training may hinder carb oxidation ability to a greater extent than it helps fat oxidation ability, and that any gains in fat oxidation might be shorter-lived than the losses in carb-burning ability.

UCAN and other “slow / steady” carb sources market to Path 1. Keto products and systems market to folks in Path 1, too. And it can work. Just not quite as well as really getting it right with good carb fueling paired with good hydration. Most of the rest of the nutrition product market currently advertises to Path 2. Their marketing teams have to dream up endless creative ways to differentiate themselves from the market leader: Gatorade. Thankfully, Gatorade has been thoroughly vilified because people mismanage their hydration often enough to have gut issues with it, or they under-dose it completely and have up and down energy. This mismanagement of hydration and dosing, resulting in folks disparaging Gatorade (not to mention the strong flavor and high sweetness of their products) has given smaller companies wiggle room to get a foothold in the market, thankfully. Gatorade still makes ~50% of endurance fuel and hydration revenue, annually, while everyone else dukes it out for table scraps. Unfortunately, these smaller companies sell premium priced products and they’re already scratching their heads on how to market to the folks who are slowly migrating from Path 1 and Path 2, to Path 3. People are starting to understand that they’ll benefit from higher fuel intakes sometimes. It’s starting to require spending an arm and a leg on something that folks are realizing they can make at home with stuff they’ve got in their kitchen already.

Hope that was insightful. Feel free to ask any questions. Apologies for huge blocks of text, meandering thoughts, and typos. I didn’t go back and edit much. :slight_smile:

it just never occurred to me that “high fructose” would contain 42-55% glucose. Anyway, thanks for pointing this out. :slight_smile: My wife was studying to become an RD a few years ago when she discovered this. It’s one of my favorite nutrition ironies.

My all-time favorite of course is that sucrose is optimal fuel while the whole world spends $30/pound for expensive fuel mixes. “Painfully ironic” really resonates.

Most of what is “bad for health” (it really is terrible, if you’re sitting around eating it!!) is actually wonderfully optimal, and even health-promoting when consumed as an endurance fuel source. HFCS, sugar, and fructose are all bad words with negative emotional connotations these days. And yet, virtually everyone who does endurance sports would have better health and performance if they consumed more of them during training, and less of them outside of training… rather than just less all the time.

I had tried the early versions of SIS Beta Fuel, with the 2:1 ratio, didn’t do well with it once it got warm. The newer 1:0.8 ratio worked much better for me, gut distress-wise. BUT, after seeing your video on table sugar, I’ve experimented a bit and settled on a homemade 1:0.66 ratio by using 60g of sugar w/ 15g of maltodextrin, and some lemon flavoring from truelemon.com in a bottle per hour dosage.

How does the lemon do with the sweetness of the drink?

I vary my ratio based on my intake and I vary my intake based on intensity & duration.

Up to 90g / hr I tend to go 2:1 to try to drive the glucose transporters as much as possible
Beyond 120g/hr I’ve had good luck with the 1:0.8 products like BetaFuel 2.0 / Flow Formula / Maurten.
I’ve also had good luck with your “speed nectar”.
Next I’ll be doing Malto + Fructose in 1:1.

The biggest benefit to “Speed Nectar” is that my 2 biggest events are in Europe and it’ll be easier to visit a store to buy a 15lb bag of Sucrose rather than smuggling a suitcase of white powder across the ocean.

Lemonade! It’s the only thing that makes the sweetness palatable. Like you, I had great luck with BetaFuel 2.0. But, when it gets to the point that you’re spending $15-$20 a ride just for glorified sugar water, alternatives look pretty appealing.

If you’re going to do maltodextrin and fructose at a 1:1 ratio, may as well just use pure sucrose. Table sugar is crazy cheap

@xtrpickels

I have to amend my earlier comments after doing a bit of experimentation. From a purely cost-savings perspective, I was looking for ways to up my carb intake using primarily sugar while minimizing the sweetness issue. After checking prices on fructose powders, I determined I could replicate Beta Fuel 2.0 for ~ $1.65 a serving using maltodextrin and fructose instead of table sugar and maltodextrin. Sure, not as inexpensive, BUT… 90grams of sucrose:fructose @ a 1:08 ratio, using maltodextrin and fructose turns out to be significantly less sweet than 75grams of sucrose:fructose @ a 1:066 ratio using table sugar and maltodextrin. Not saving as much money, but far better way to get the 90grams of carbs in a palatable concoction, IMO. thanks for inadvertently steering me down that path.

Nice- I picked up some TrueLemon on your suggestion. I’ll give it a shot this weekend.

Currently using 70g maltodextrin + 50g fructose + 1g sodium per 1hr bottle and I think I found my new jam. My question is- do you think there are any I’ll effects to squeezing half of a fresh lemon in this mix versus lemon flavoring? It tastes amazing. I probably would only add it to 1-2 bottles over the course of a long ride just to mix up the flavor. Adding it to all bottles just seems like a lot of acid over that amount of time.

Probably okay. All the more reason to use sodium citrate as all or part of your sodium source though.

Sodium citrate acts as a buffer. When sodium citrate dissolves in water, it dissociates into sodium ions and citrate ions. On the other hand, table salt can only dissolve in water as Na+ and Cl- ions. Citrate is a much better buffer than Cl- as far as I know.

Not to mention just having fewer chloride ions floating around is probably a good thing because they’re already an offender of guts during exercise.