Hey all,
I’m looking for some info on aging endurance athletes and heart damage for a presentation in a couple months. Prevalence of AFIB, conduction anomalies, fibrosis etc. Hit me up with links or citations. If you’re interested, I’ll be glad to share my powerpoint presentation once it’s together. Thanks!
Do a little search here on the forum and you will find a ton of threads on heart related stuff, from athletes, doctors, and everyone inbetween. Sorry to say that I will be prominent in most of them…
Monty,
I read your stuff, but didn’t want to be rude and just put up a public call for you. Strange for ST, I know ;-).
At any rate, have there been any studies of some of the older IM and other long-distance endurance athletes?
Was it left ventricular hypertrophy causing bundle branch blocks? SA node dysfunction leading to AFIB? What were they seeing across the board, and was there any unifying theme? What level of athlete is seeing this sort of damage- pro’s only (due to the extremely high volumes of training), or is it some of the AG’ers as well, even MOP folks (with their typically more moderate levels of lifetime exertion).
I know you said that it was racing sick that you felt had really done it.
Thanks for any info.
can’t give you any research links; just my personal experience at 63 on thursday.
started competitive swimming at age 12 1958-1968; 3 year break for the army; 1971-75 rugby. in '75 started long distance running; competing at distances from 5K to marathon (ran 5). best 10K 32:00. started triathlons in '82-93. age group AA; age group national champion; 4th at worlds. (never went further than 1/2 IM.) stopped competing '93 but kept training hard in cycling til 12/07. suddenly performance fell off the cliff—A-flutter was discovered to be the culprit. tried cardio version, ablation. then, experience V-tach. had PM/de-fib inserted. experienced V-tach again about a month later. sotalol added to the mix. 10 months later V-tach; more sotalol.
lived in hawaii from '72-2004. trained year 'round. swim m-sat 2-3K from '81-98 + running or cycling bricks ranging from 7-12 miles running; 25-60 miles riding. easy runs were around 7min; seldom slower. most efforts were moderate to hard efforts all of those years.
no personal/family history i’m aware of re: heart disease.
now, an hour ride at 14+ mph is a good day. no running (jogging) or swimming.
Not the level of Don but I have been dx with A Fib(actually self dx and referred) several years ago.
Initial w/u was neg exercise nvg, echo do have a family hx of A Fib started on coumadin and beta blocker resulting in a tia
because my resting hr was already in the low 40’s. Current regiment low dose asa and propafenone
600mg prn(except for once always convert under 3 hr) I played high school football and basketball
and jr college football. Didn’t really exercise regularly again until 1982 when I started running and started
tri’s in 1990. My 10K best was 37:06 marathon best 3:15 Will be 65 in Dec. 7th at itu worlds 2004
6th Clearwater 2006. When I did Clearwater in 2007 about 5mi into bike felt increased PE and noter I was in
A Fib which lasted the rest of the race. When I downloaded my hr monitor I actually went into A Fib about 5 min into swim. I have looked and have a coach that did an extensive search and there are just no studies to be found at that time. I often wonder if a surgical mishap I had in 94 after which I lost 40lbs(started at 160 before surg)
had anything to do with the heart muscle and electrical system malfunction.
Am still participating in tri’s mostly Oly and 1/2IM
Good Luck in your search
If you find any studies shout back
Mike
You might read Dr. Tim Noakes book “Lore of Running”. He sometimes writes about heart problems (and non-problems) for marathon and ultra-marathon runners. It might take some time to read though! My copy is 931 pages long.
Make sure you make the distinction between heart modifications vs. heart damage (for instance an inverted T-wave is common but not damaging your heart), the difference between long term vs transient changes (for instance that a heart has difficulty filling up the chambers right after a marathon, but you give it a few days and it’s all good), are able to show causality from endurance to heart changes…
Looking at studies, my regular doc who has a lot of world class athletes on his roster, told me that either there was a study or an ongoing one. He said it appeared that among pro endurance athletes, there seems to be a 3 times greater in heart anomolies. And you can include a couple elite AG’ers that race and train like pros in that category. The theory here is that the pro has more oppertunities to cross that fine line, and has a ton more incentive. I do not believe it is an overtraining syndrome that causes most problems either, otherwise it would be more widespread among all levels. As was in my case, it is an isolated incident or two that cause the damage. The problems are so varied, that it is hard to target anything exact, only that all the problems are in the heart, so that is the focal point of the study I believe.
Perhaps I will call him and get him onto this thread, and he can add the current knowledge and thinking on the subject. He had always warned me that what I was doing was risky in the long run, and most likley I would have some sort of problem. But when you are young, dumb, and full of you know what, it just seems like you are invinciable, and you ignore warning signs…I will be interested in what you come up with, and let me know if you need any of my details…
Anomaly does not equate to damage. This is something you often see in the literature.
Yes, there are anomalies that are consequences of intense training. But it’s not clear which ones are actually damages. It’s also (often) not clear when they were triggered by working out, or if the process was accelerated.
http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/24/16/1473 is a real study…
on the other hand: http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=1280 is a load of crap.
Anomaly does not equate to damage. This is something you often see in the literature.
Yes, there are anomalies that are consequences of intense training. But it’s not clear which ones are actually damages. It’s also (often) not clear when they were triggered by working out, or if the process was accelerated.
Yep. I have the very common anomaly of variable heart rate due to an athletically hypertrophied heart and large lung capacity. On EKG’s, I also have an anomaly. Normally the repolarization of the atria is overwhelmed by the depolarization of the ventricles, and is not seen on an EKG. Due to my training, it is seen on mine. Makes a spike similar to a bundle branch block.
Neither of these are damages or damaging, they’re just kind of there.
John
Hey all,
I’m looking for some info on aging endurance athletes and heart damage for a presentation in a couple months. Prevalence of AFIB, conduction anomalies, fibrosis etc. Hit me up with links or citations. If you’re interested, I’ll be glad to share my powerpoint presentation once it’s together. Thanks!
So I gotta ask: are you going to tell your audience that you got your information by polling a web forum vs. searching the scientific literature yourself? Seems to me that might be a good disclaimer to put right up front…
But this isn’t “a web forum.” It’s Slowtwitch! Surely the audience would understand.
25+ years triathlon racing and training. Plenty of IMs with decent results.
Coronary bypass in 2007 due to 100% blockage of LAD artery (Left Anterior Descending aka the ‘Widowmaker’).
While the cause of this was strictly hereditary (atherosclerosis), endurance training was beneficial in delaying the onset of the disease and assisting in a rapid recovery that allowed me to resume IM racing in 2008.
On the negative side, I do have a small necrotic section on my heart that my doctor speculates was a result of racing IMH the previous year. But, I can truly claim to have left part of my heart on the course at Kona. Heading back this year to race again.
Brian
load of crap? how can you say that? look at this post devaney put on that site regarding long-distance cycling, and resulting risks to health…
“I also worry about the posture and pressure on the testicals. This creates an ischemic state in the area of the testicals, a known cause of cell death and reperfusion injury. Plus, abundant other sources of free radicals that damage tissue and promote cancer”
my bike scares me now. i never knew my saddle promoted cancer. will a livestrong bracelet counteract the power of the saddle and protect me?
Testicals?? Not worried about that. Don’t have any
Hey all,
I’m looking for some info on aging endurance athletes and heart damage for a presentation in a couple months. Prevalence of AFIB, conduction anomalies, fibrosis etc. Hit me up with links or citations. If you’re interested, I’ll be glad to share my powerpoint presentation once it’s together. Thanks!
So I gotta ask: are you going to tell your audience that you got your information by polling a web forum vs. searching the scientific literature yourself? Seems to me that might be a good disclaimer to put right up front…
So I gotta ask, hows that reading comprehension coming? He’s not asking for information from athletes, he’s asking for links and citations. (One would hope that it’s to supplement his ongoing research, but… 
)
John
I’m not so much looking for EKG variants as actual pathologic structural changes. If there’s higher incidence of “x” condition, then why- cumulative wear and tear, one seminal event, etc.
Thanks for those 2 links- I’ll take a look at home. Nothing like the “blocks everything” firewall.
So I gotta ask: are you going to tell your audience that you got your information by polling a web forum vs. searching the scientific literature yourself? Seems to me that might be a good disclaimer to put right up front…
I definitely want to avoid the anecdotal stuff. I was hoping for some links or journal citations that I may not have dug up in my own searching. The librarian here can get ahold of just about anything, but most of what I’m finding is benefits of exercise post-MI.
I’m looking to review the literature that’s out there and well-done, not some half-assed retrospective internet study!
Hey all,
I’m looking for some info on aging endurance athletes and heart damage for a presentation in a couple months. Prevalence of AFIB, conduction anomalies, fibrosis etc. Hit me up with links or citations. If you’re interested, I’ll be glad to share my powerpoint presentation once it’s together. Thanks!
So I gotta ask: are you going to tell your audience that you got your information by polling a web forum vs. searching the scientific literature yourself? Seems to me that might be a good disclaimer to put right up front…
So I gotta ask, hows that reading comprehension coming?
Better than yours, apparently (see below).
He’s not asking for information from athletes, he’s asking for links and citations.
I know. That is why I wrote “information” and not “information from athletes”.