Storm came through Monday and knocked out the power. Back on today but the hot tub is tripping the breaker. Main panel to sub panel. 50 amp sub panel breaker up to 50 amp disconnect in garage. Disconnect to hot tub outside the garage. When I liven everything up the disconnect keeps tripping about 5-6 seconds after I reset it.
Checked the wiring at the disconnect and at the hot tub. Everything looks good. Nothing shorted or burnt as far as I can see. Could the breaker in the disconnect be bad?
One thought was to unwire the disconnect and connect the sub panel tub wires directly to the hot tub wires, bypassing the disconnect. If it didn’t trip then I could assume the disconnect was bad. If it did trip at the sub panel then I could assume it’s something with the hot tub?
Storm came through Monday and knocked out the power. Back on today but the hot tub is tripping the breaker. Main panel to sub panel. 50 amp sub panel breaker up to 50 amp disconnect in garage. Disconnect to hot tub outside the garage. When I liven everything up the disconnect keeps tripping about 5-6 seconds after I reset it.
Checked the wiring at the disconnect and at the hot tub. Everything looks good. Nothing shorted or burnt as far as I can see. Could the breaker in the disconnect be bad?
One thought was to unwire the disconnect and connect the sub panel tub wires directly to the hot tub wires, bypassing the disconnect. If it didn’t trip then I could assume the disconnect was bad. If it did trip at the sub panel then I could assume it’s something with the hot tub?
Yeah turn off the 50 amp sump make now power coming through, depending on how the disconnect is set up, its really easy to connect in and out to the in side, safely bypassing everything quickly, close box turn on sub and try the hot tub. GET NEW DISCONNECT AND REASSEMBLE CORRECTLY ASAP. DONT LEAVE IT BY PASSING IT.
But its possible, when the power went up or down, that something in the hot tub let the smoke out. Was tub on and or running when power was knocked out?
Happened mid day on Monday so tub was probably off, unless it had to come on to maintain the water temp. When the water temp drops a degree or so it will turn on the heater and one of the pumps. Might have been in this mode but no idea.
No, don’t do that. At least, not until you have more information.
First, which is the GFCI breaker to the hot tub: is it the one in the sub-panel or the one in the disco?
Second, is the GFCI tripping or is the breaker itself tripping? Generally, you can tell by whether you need to recycle the handle of the breaker to reset, or if you need to press the Reset button. But I can’t tell you that that is universal (I don’t know what brand breakers are installed.)
If the breaker is tripping, there is more than likely a short happening, either line-to-line or line-to-ground. If it’s the GFCI, then there is an imbalance between the current going to the tub and the return on the neutral. This is generally an indication that there was some water ingress into either the hot tub controls, the conduit traveling to the tub (and there’s a problem with the insulation), or into the disco. So, check those for signs of water; MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF TO THE CIRCUIT PRIOR TO CHECKING THESE!
Third, I would then open the local disconnect at the hot tub itself (been a few years since I wired one, but the last ones I did I believe all had a disconnect at the tub controls itself). If not, and you seem like you’re comfortable around electricity, unland the tub leads and tape them up with a bunch of wraps of electrical tape. Once you have isolated the tub controls, now try to reset the breaker feeding the circuit. Does it trip now?
If all of this has been tried, and the breaker still trips, now work your way back through the circuit and try to isolate things until the breaker that is tripping holds. Last thing to try is unlanding the leads at the breaker and trying that. If that doesn’t hold, you’ve found your culprit.
I’ll be in and out most of the day, but I’ll keep track of this thread best I can. Lemme know how you make out!
- Jeff
*Note: Licensed NH Master Electrician since 2003.
No, don’t do that. At least, not until you have more information.
First, which is the GFCI breaker to the hot tub: is it the one in the sub-panel or the one in the disco?
Second, is the GFCI tripping or is the breaker itself tripping? Generally, you can tell by whether you need to recycle the handle of the breaker to reset, or if you need to press the Reset button. But I can’t tell you that that is universal (I don’t know what brand breakers are installed.)
If the breaker is tripping, there is more than likely a short happening, either line-to-line or line-to-ground. If it’s the GFCI, then there is an imbalance between the current going to the tub and the return on the neutral. This is generally an indication that there was some water ingress into either the hot tub controls, the conduit traveling to the tub (and there’s a problem with the insulation), or into the disco. So, check those for signs of water; MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF TO THE CIRCUIT PRIOR TO CHECKING THESE!
Third, I would then open the local disconnect at the hot tub itself (been a few years since I wired one, but the last ones I did I believe all had a disconnect at the tub controls itself). If not, and you seem like you’re comfortable around electricity, unland the tub leads and tape them up with a bunch of wraps of electrical tape. Once you have isolated the tub controls, now try to reset the breaker feeding the circuit. Does it trip now?
If all of this has been tried, and the breaker still trips, now work your way back through the circuit and try to isolate things until the breaker that is tripping holds. Last thing to try is unlanding the leads at the breaker and trying that. If that doesn’t hold, you’ve found your culprit.
I’ll be in and out most of the day, but I’ll keep track of this thread best I can. Lemme know how you make out!
- Jeff
*Note: Licensed NH Master Electrician since 2003.
This times 2. I have a hot tub as well and what the OP is describing indicates a problem somewhere created by the storm. I don’t believe in coincident. There is water where it doesn’t belong. The root cause needs corrected first, and using electricity to find it is dangerous.
My son hooked up my hot tub - a Construction-A Journeyman electrician with local 25. My hook up is by the book. I have a hot tub that pulls 48 amps max on 220. I have a 60 amp breaker of the main house that goes to a 60 amp spa panel, which has a 60 amp GFCI that goes to the tub. I also have 2 GFCI protected 110 outlets in that box for the lights, music, etc. that are not on the spa circuit. That was pulled into the box separate from the 220 line. According to my son, you are not allowed to have anything on the spa circuit except the spa, by code.
Considering the time of year, I would just open the breaker and drain the tub for the winter and call an electrician in the spring. Of course calling an electrician for me is easier and cheaper than for most.
No, don’t do that. At least, not until you have more information.
First, which is the GFCI breaker to the hot tub: is it the one in the sub-panel or the one in the disco?
Second, is the GFCI tripping or is the breaker itself tripping? Generally, you can tell by whether you need to recycle the handle of the breaker to reset, or if you need to press the Reset button. But I can’t tell you that that is universal (I don’t know what brand breakers are installed.)
If the breaker is tripping, there is more than likely a short happening, either line-to-line or line-to-ground. If it’s the GFCI, then there is an imbalance between the current going to the tub and the return on the neutral. This is generally an indication that there was some water ingress into either the hot tub controls, the conduit traveling to the tub (and there’s a problem with the insulation), or into the disco. So, check those for signs of water; MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF TO THE CIRCUIT PRIOR TO CHECKING THESE!
Third, I would then open the local disconnect at the hot tub itself (been a few years since I wired one, but the last ones I did I believe all had a disconnect at the tub controls itself). If not, and you seem like you’re comfortable around electricity, unland the tub leads and tape them up with a bunch of wraps of electrical tape. Once you have isolated the tub controls, now try to reset the breaker feeding the circuit. Does it trip now?
If all of this has been tried, and the breaker still trips, now work your way back through the circuit and try to isolate things until the breaker that is tripping holds. Last thing to try is unlanding the leads at the breaker and trying that. If that doesn’t hold, you’ve found your culprit.
I’ll be in and out most of the day, but I’ll keep track of this thread best I can. Lemme know how you make out!
- Jeff
*Note: Licensed NH Master Electrician since 2003.
This is the disconnect I have in the garage. In between the sub panel and hot tub. I have the 50 amp one. I pretty sure the breaker itself is tripping. The white button at the bottom of the breaker I think just said Test. When the breaker is tripping, like most, it trips about halfway. Then I have to fully switch it to off, then back to on. What is baffling to me, is when i reset it, it takes a couple of seconds to trip. When I first noticed it, I took the disconnect cover off and reset the breaker and it didn’t trip. At least for the 15-20 sec I had it on. Put the cover back on, to see if that was hitting something causing it to trip and it tripped after 4-5 sec. Pulled the cover back off, reset the breaker and it tripped after 4-5 sec. So then I figured it wasn’t the cover.
I was talking to one of my guys at work and he was also suggesting looking to see if the sealtite from the disconnect to the hot tub had water in it. The sealtite goes from inside the garage (disconnect is on the inside of the garage), outside under the deck, into the side of the hot tub. There is about 2’ separating the garage from the hot tub. When it enters the hot tub, the sealtite runs a good 8-9 inches into the hot tub cavity. Might be water in it, if so, I’d have to think its getting in somewhere in that 2’ since both ends terminate indoors (in the garage on one side, under the hot tub on the other.
I don’t think there is a disconnect at the hot tub itself. I took off the side panel, the wires go into a good size control panel. Took the cover off of that, and from my eyes everything looked good. When I took the side panel off the hot tub, the inside was dry, even the ground/slab below it appeared dry. I was first thinking maybe a mouse had moved in and chewed on the wire insulation but didn’t see any droppings at all. Was kind of surprised since it’s pretty warm under there.
I’ll try disconnecting the hot tub wires first, like you suggest and go from there.
No, don’t do that. At least, not until you have more information.
First, which is the GFCI breaker to the hot tub: is it the one in the sub-panel or the one in the disco?
Second, is the GFCI tripping or is the breaker itself tripping? Generally, you can tell by whether you need to recycle the handle of the breaker to reset, or if you need to press the Reset button. But I can’t tell you that that is universal (I don’t know what brand breakers are installed.)
If the breaker is tripping, there is more than likely a short happening, either line-to-line or line-to-ground. If it’s the GFCI, then there is an imbalance between the current going to the tub and the return on the neutral. This is generally an indication that there was some water ingress into either the hot tub controls, the conduit traveling to the tub (and there’s a problem with the insulation), or into the disco. So, check those for signs of water; MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF TO THE CIRCUIT PRIOR TO CHECKING THESE!
Third, I would then open the local disconnect at the hot tub itself (been a few years since I wired one, but the last ones I did I believe all had a disconnect at the tub controls itself). If not, and you seem like you’re comfortable around electricity, unland the tub leads and tape them up with a bunch of wraps of electrical tape. Once you have isolated the tub controls, now try to reset the breaker feeding the circuit. Does it trip now?
If all of this has been tried, and the breaker still trips, now work your way back through the circuit and try to isolate things until the breaker that is tripping holds. Last thing to try is unlanding the leads at the breaker and trying that. If that doesn’t hold, you’ve found your culprit.
I’ll be in and out most of the day, but I’ll keep track of this thread best I can. Lemme know how you make out!
- Jeff
*Note: Licensed NH Master Electrician since 2003.
This times 2. I have a hot tub as well and what the OP is describing indicates a problem somewhere created by the storm. I don’t believe in coincident. There is water where it doesn’t belong. The root cause needs corrected first, and using electricity to find it is dangerous.
My son hooked up my hot tub - a Construction-A Journeyman electrician with local 25. My hook up is by the book. I have a hot tub that pulls 48 amps max on 220. I have a 60 amp breaker of the main house that goes to a 60 amp spa panel, which has a 60 amp GFCI that goes to the tub. I also have 2 GFCI protected 110 outlets in that box for the lights, music, etc. that are not on the spa circuit. That was pulled into the box separate from the 220 line. According to my son, you are not allowed to have anything on the spa circuit except the spa, by code.
Considering the time of year, I would just open the breaker and drain the tub for the winter and call an electrician in the spring. Of course calling an electrician for me is easier and cheaper than for most.
Outside the GFCI comments, the Dissconnect and the breaker at the sub are required redundancy. I don’t see what the increased harm is from by passing the one to make sure its not the problem?
Heck just saw this done a few weeks ago at a job site, 30 min to rewire, it worked, kept the job site running, till they returned with new disconnect replaced it and all was good.
Disconnect’s can fail, and this is a pretty simple and safe way to see if thats the problem. (After making sure its not a GFCI fault)
Ok, with that breaker I’m not sure you would be able to tell what is tripping it, a ground fault or a short circuit.
One other thought, where it takes a few seconds for it to trip: that to me sounds like the pump motor is in a locked-rotor condition (it won’t budge, it’s jammed up for some reason).
What you really need is a clamp on ammeter to test the amperage when you turn the circuit on (I’m guessing that you’ll find the problem is isolated to the hot tub itself). If it’s a locked-rotor condition, you’ll probably see in excess of 90 amps before the breaker trips.
But, one thing at a time…
- Jeff
It’s not a good idea for two reasons, Dave:
1 - he’s not an electrician and bypassing the ground fault protection when there is vlearly a problem in the circuit is super dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing;
and 2 - there’s a hierarchy of troubleshooting steps that need to happen when tracing something like this, and bypassing what you think might be the problem is not in those steps. Bypassing what you’ve traced to most likely be the issue, however, is part of those steps, but it is literally the last step and used as a check, rather than a test.
- Jeff
No, don’t do that. At least, not until you have more information.
First, which is the GFCI breaker to the hot tub: is it the one in the sub-panel or the one in the disco?
Second, is the GFCI tripping or is the breaker itself tripping? Generally, you can tell by whether you need to recycle the handle of the breaker to reset, or if you need to press the Reset button. But I can’t tell you that that is universal (I don’t know what brand breakers are installed.)
If the breaker is tripping, there is more than likely a short happening, either line-to-line or line-to-ground. If it’s the GFCI, then there is an imbalance between the current going to the tub and the return on the neutral. This is generally an indication that there was some water ingress into either the hot tub controls, the conduit traveling to the tub (and there’s a problem with the insulation), or into the disco. So, check those for signs of water; MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF TO THE CIRCUIT PRIOR TO CHECKING THESE!
Third, I would then open the local disconnect at the hot tub itself (been a few years since I wired one, but the last ones I did I believe all had a disconnect at the tub controls itself). If not, and you seem like you’re comfortable around electricity, unland the tub leads and tape them up with a bunch of wraps of electrical tape. Once you have isolated the tub controls, now try to reset the breaker feeding the circuit. Does it trip now?
If all of this has been tried, and the breaker still trips, now work your way back through the circuit and try to isolate things until the breaker that is tripping holds. Last thing to try is unlanding the leads at the breaker and trying that. If that doesn’t hold, you’ve found your culprit.
I’ll be in and out most of the day, but I’ll keep track of this thread best I can. Lemme know how you make out!
- Jeff
*Note: Licensed NH Master Electrician since 2003.
This is the disconnect I have in the garage. In between the sub panel and hot tub. I have the 50 amp one. I pretty sure the breaker itself is tripping. The white button at the bottom of the breaker I think just said Test. When the breaker is tripping, like most, it trips about halfway. Then I have to fully switch it to off, then back to on. What is baffling to me, is when i reset it, it takes a couple of seconds to trip. When I first noticed it, I took the disconnect cover off and reset the breaker and it didn’t trip. At least for the 15-20 sec I had it on. Put the cover back on, to see if that was hitting something causing it to trip and it tripped after 4-5 sec. Pulled the cover back off, reset the breaker and it tripped after 4-5 sec. So then I figured it wasn’t the cover.
I was talking to one of my guys at work and he was also suggesting looking to see if the sealtite from the disconnect to the hot tub had water in it. The sealtite goes from inside the garage (disconnect is on the inside of the garage), outside under the deck, into the side of the hot tub. There is about 2’ separating the garage from the hot tub. When it enters the hot tub, the sealtite runs a good 8-9 inches into the hot tub cavity. Might be water in it, if so, I’d have to think its getting in somewhere in that 2’ since both ends terminate indoors (in the garage on one side, under the hot tub on the other.
I don’t think there is a disconnect at the hot tub itself. I took off the side panel, the wires go into a good size control panel. Took the cover off of that, and from my eyes everything looked good. When I took the side panel off the hot tub, the inside was dry, even the ground/slab below it appeared dry. I was first thinking maybe a mouse had moved in and chewed on the wire insulation but didn’t see any droppings at all. Was kind of surprised since it’s pretty warm under there.
I’ll try disconnecting the hot tub wires first, like you suggest and go from there.
I agree with others, this was most likely caused by the power fluctuations when it went down and back on. Without being there, my guess, the pump or heater shorted out in from a current surge or running in brown out. So you give power, the hot tub fires up, checks everything says oh need to heat water, turns on pump and heater and bang blows the fuse (pops the circuit). The boot up time is probably the delay. The longer time the first time, is probably because there is some capacitance in the system that keeps it going for a few minutes in case of brief outage, but the longer outage drained it. It could be the discconnect and took longer the first time cause it had cooled, and the next resets were soon after so it was still warm, and tripped quicker.
If it were me, I would do as you suggested. Obviously have no one in or around hot tub when you are playing around. and all other normal safety precautions (wear shoes). — well actually I would run down to HD buy a new disconnect try it and if that did fix it return it.
It’s not a good idea for two reasons, Dave:
1 - he’s not an electrician and bypassing the ground fault protection when there is vlearly a problem in the circuit is super dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing;
and 2 - there’s a hierarchy of troubleshooting steps that need to happen when tracing something like this, and bypassing what you think might be the problem is not in those steps. Bypassing what you’ve traced to most likely be the issue, however, is part of those steps, but it is literally the last step and used as a check, rather than a test.
- Jeff
On 2 I would say it depends. If it takes me 10 min to bypass the disconnect turn it on, run for 2 min, turn it off and put back. thats 20 min ish of “wasted time”
trying to get a meter on to the pump, to monitor for the 5 sec or less while it runs, which will require someone near the malfunctioning tub, is a pain and requries 2 people.
So yeah given its integrated into the GFCI, 10 min trip to HD 5 min to swap out the disconnect would be the first thing I would do yup might be a waste of 30 min, but if its something else your most likely talking a long time diagnosing and waiting for replacement parts, or repair person, so the 30 min wont be a big deal.
So while I agree on trouble shooting checking list, If there is something that is easy to check that could be the issue, I like to check that first.
It’s not a good idea for two reasons, Dave:
1 - he’s not an electrician and bypassing the ground fault protection when there is vlearly a problem in the circuit is super dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing;
and 2 - there’s a hierarchy of troubleshooting steps that need to happen when tracing something like this, and bypassing what you think might be the problem is not in those steps. Bypassing what you’ve traced to most likely be the issue, however, is part of those steps, but it is literally the last step and used as a check, rather than a test.
- Jeff
On 2 I would say it depends. If it takes me 10 min to bypass the disconnect turn it on, run for 2 min, turn it off and put back. thats 20 min ish of “wasted time”
trying to get a meter on to the pump, to monitor for the 5 sec or less while it runs, which will require someone near the malfunctioning tub, is a pain and requries 2 people.
So yeah given its integrated into the GFCI, 10 min trip to HD 5 min to swap out the disconnect would be the first thing I would do yup might be a waste of 30 min, but if its something else your most likely talking a long time diagnosing and waiting for replacement parts, or repair person, so the 30 min wont be a big deal.
So while I agree on trouble shooting checking list, If there is something that is easy to check that could be the issue, I like to check that first.
As an electrician, JK has responsibility to tell someone the correct way to diagnose things. If he starts telling people to use shortcuts, and it backfires, that might come back on him.
As an internet rando, no matter how much you have worked with this stuff, you can tell someone the shortcut method. If it backfires on them, people will ask why they put their faith in an internet rando.
I think I’ll unwire the hot tub wires first and turn the disconnect back on. I’m assuming if it doesn’t trip then the problem is something in the hot tub.
If it does trip then, if I’m understanding correctly, it’s either the wiring to the hot tub or the disconnect itself.
I think I’ll unwire the hot tub wires first and turn the disconnect back on. I’m assuming if it doesn’t trip then the problem is something in the hot tub.
If it does trip then, if I’m understanding correctly, it’s either the wiring to the hot tub or the disconnect itself.
No it needs current flowing through it to trip.
If it has failed, its basically tripping with to low a current. But not running anything through it would not make it trip.
It’s not a good idea for two reasons, Dave:
1 - he’s not an electrician and bypassing the ground fault protection when there is vlearly a problem in the circuit is super dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing;
and 2 - there’s a hierarchy of troubleshooting steps that need to happen when tracing something like this, and bypassing what you think might be the problem is not in those steps. Bypassing what you’ve traced to most likely be the issue, however, is part of those steps, but it is literally the last step and used as a check, rather than a test.
- Jeff
On 2 I would say it depends. If it takes me 10 min to bypass the disconnect turn it on, run for 2 min, turn it off and put back. thats 20 min ish of “wasted time”
trying to get a meter on to the pump, to monitor for the 5 sec or less while it runs, which will require someone near the malfunctioning tub, is a pain and requries 2 people.
So yeah given its integrated into the GFCI, 10 min trip to HD 5 min to swap out the disconnect would be the first thing I would do yup might be a waste of 30 min, but if its something else your most likely talking a long time diagnosing and waiting for replacement parts, or repair person, so the 30 min wont be a big deal.
So while I agree on trouble shooting checking list, If there is something that is easy to check that could be the issue, I like to check that first.
As an electrician, JK has responsibility to tell someone the correct way to diagnose things. If he starts telling people to use shortcuts, and it backfires, that might come back on him.
As an internet rando, no matter how much you have worked with this stuff, you can tell someone the shortcut method. If it backfires on them, people will ask why they put their faith in an internet rando.
Uhm I didn’t disagree with him, it was a difference of waiting priorities. I would guess, there are many electricians out there, who if they had that disconnect in their van, would first try swapping it out, before trying to get inside the hot tub and determine which electrical thing is at fault. Heck I would guess many electricians would not even work on the hot tub and tell you to call a hot tub repair place.
Ultimately you have 2 things that could have failed, the disconnect (an electirician’s problem) or the appliance, the repair guys problem.
You can try to fix either problem first, I find it easier to attempt to fix the easy one first.
We can get into a diagnostic approach discussion, do you start at the small first or the big… Top down or bottom up. He want to start diagnoising everything on the hot tub, I want to start up stream on the disconnect neither is wrong, just different.
Car wont start, do start by looking to see if your fuel pump is working your spark plugs are working, or do you check to make sure the battery has not become disconnected. I would start with the battery cable, specifically the ground wire as they are most likely to come lose.
However when my light bulb doesn’t come on I usually replace it first, before checking the switch or circuit breaker.
Disconnects dont fail often, so its unlikely that’s what it is, but in the off chance, its an easy fix to try first.
While powered off, he could also check continuity across the pump and heater wires, to see if either has an internal short. No clue how accessible those are on his appliance.
I think I’ll unwire the hot tub wires first and turn the disconnect back on. I’m assuming if it doesn’t trip then the problem is something in the hot tub.
If it does trip then, if I’m understanding correctly, it’s either the wiring to the hot tub or the disconnect itself.
Correct. Start at the load, isolate, test, then work back to the source.
- Jeff
I think I’ll unwire the hot tub wires first and turn the disconnect back on. I’m assuming if it doesn’t trip then the problem is something in the hot tub.
If it does trip then, if I’m understanding correctly, it’s either the wiring to the hot tub or the disconnect itself.
No it needs current flowing through it to trip.
If it has failed, its basically tripping with to low a current. But not running anything through it would not make it trip.
This is 100% false.
Love your posts, Dave, but on this one, you need to stop. You are giving out misleading and potentially dangerous advice. I realize that’s what happens on the internet, but holy hell.
*Note: my dog is back at the emergency vet, so if I start to sound a bit heated, please understand I mean no offense, I’m just exasperated.
Jesus, Dave. Any electrician that would start by swapping out parts you should kick off your propertu immediately, because they’re just a parts changer and not a troubleshooter.
I’m a troubleshooter. I’m actually a controls engineer in addition to being a master electrician. My boss pays me (and charges out for me) pretty damn good money because I know my shit.
In the half an hour you wasted trying to rig up a bypass around the disco, I’d have figured out exactly what the problem is and not wasted a customer’s (nor mine) time, and thus money. In providing Matt with the proper troubleshooting techniques, he can isolate the problem in less than 5 minutes with no tools other than a screwdriver: if it’s the tub, he’s essentially SOL, but if it’s in the feed to the tub, well… now we can delve further into it and get to the root of the problem.
It would be absolutely stupid and, quite frankly, criminal to tell someone to go buy parts they don’t need to try to figure out a simple problem. Which this is.
Also, if there is a problem with the tub, and it were to be livened up without proper ground fault protection, there is the very real possibility of someone - or something (we have an obligation as electricians to ensure that harm comes to neither person nor property) - getting hurt.
Please stick to court case commentary (I personally love those, Dave).
- Jeff
*Note: my dog is back at the emergency vet, so if I start to sound a bit heated, please understand I mean no offense, I’m just exasperated.
Jesus, Dave. Any electrician that would start by swapping out parts you should kick off your propertu immediately, because they’re just a parts changer and not a troubleshooter.
I’m a troubleshooter. I’m actually a controls engineer in addition to being a master electrician. My boss pays me (and charges out for me) pretty damn good money because I know my shit.
In the half an hour you wasted trying to rig up a bypass around the disco, I’d have figured out exactly what the problem is and not wasted a customer’s (nor mine) time, and thus money. In providing Matt with the proper troubleshooting techniques, he can isolate the problem in less than 5 minutes with no tools other than a screwdriver: if it’s the tub, he’s essentially SOL, but if it’s in the feed to the tub, well… now we can delve further into it and get to the root of the problem.
It would be absolutely stupid and, quite frankly, criminal to tell someone to go buy parts they don’t need to try to figure out a simple problem. Which this is.
Also, if there is a problem with the tub, and it were to be livened up without proper ground fault protection, there is the very real possibility of someone - or something (we have an obligation as electricians to ensure that harm comes to neither person nor property) - getting hurt.
Please stick to court case commentary (I personally love those, Dave).
- Jeff
Not heated at all.
Hope your dog gets better soon.
Yeah your probably, right, given my lack of english writing skills, I get misunderstood often, and when it comes to electricity, that’s probably not a good thing. LOL
I am curious, if a circuit breaker has gone bad, such that it trips after 5-10 seconds of load applied, what would be the mechanism to trip it if no load is applied. (okay I keep ignoring the GFCI part but that wont trip if no wires are attached either) The only way I could see if tripping is if its own internal GFCI has shorted then even with no load it would have flow. But how would a breaker trip without any load applied?
on the trouble shooting, I guess its the difference of experience, time and money. So for me fast and easy, swap out the disconnect, Check continuity of feed lines(probably the first thing I would do), to hot tub and check for cross continuity for a short. After that, call hot tub repair person, or wait till summer when its not 30 deg outside to work on it.
I think I’ll unwire the hot tub wires first and turn the disconnect back on. I’m assuming if it doesn’t trip then the problem is something in the hot tub.
If it does trip then, if I’m understanding correctly, it’s either the wiring to the hot tub or the disconnect itself.
Correct. Start at the load, isolate, test, then work back to the source.
- Jeff
Just want to understand, when you say unwire the hot tub. Your saying at the hot tub, not at the disconnect box. and make sure to cover the open ends of the line.