Egoscue anyone?

Triathlon Forum
1

Does anybody in Slowtwitch-land have any experience from the Egoscue-method? What´s your opinion about it?

I´ve been introduced to it as a method to align the body and as such, avoid injuries and hold up better for tough training in the long run.

So far, I feel a bit ambigous. I can understand the philosophy but as I understand it just takes hours and hours every day and with swim-bike-run there isn´t quite the time. But then again, it might just be the best investment I should make.

Also, if I spent like 15000 hours training in the past 15 yrs or so, shaping my body the way it looks and works today, how is a couple of hours per day going to change it?

Also, a lot of the exercises try to align feet, knees and hip to a “neutral” supposedly better position. Who says neutral is better? Don´t try to fix it if it ain´t broken… I´ve never had injured feet, knees or hip and have always ran fast…(2.48 IM-run) A lot of people run terrible from a text-book point of view. Cripes sake, look at how Dave Scott ran… I´ve seen pictures from behind of him running where it looks as he is pronating so bad that it looks like otrhopedists nightmare and it still worked pretty well…

However, I´ve had an injured glute last year, keeping me from my potential and a and a tender lowerback from time to time so still, there are issues for sure…

My best results from similar preventive exercise is from doing yoga in Sumner, NZ, with Gordo under the tutelage of “YogaMark” That was truly great and I`ll surely do it whenever I get the chance again. In Borås, Sweden, good yoga is hard to come by though…

So my major concern with Egoscue is that I´ll be spending a serious amount of time to try to align my body in a more neutral position with the result that I´ll be injured in parts of my body that never has bothered me before or that my body just won´t change, stubborn as it is from training since adolescence (I´m 30 now)

Thoughts about this anyone?

2

I had some really good escargot a couple of weeks ago. . .lots of butter and garlic. . .

Oh, sorry. . .wrong word. . .hell, I’ve never heard of Egoscue. What the hell are you talking about?

3

Jonas

This started off as a very long-winded reply to your question, and then I changed it, and well, I can’t guarantee that it will not still become long winded. I do have some firsthand experience with the Egoscue Method. I have read all of his books, I have gone to one of his training seminars and I spent 3 or 4 days there as an athletic training student when I was working with the Univ of Wisconsin Volleyball Team.

Even though I fully agree that his basic premise is spot-on I remain somewhat skeptical of the “Method”. I certainly do not feel that his way is the only way to the functional alignment “holy-land”, but at the same time I am intrigued by his method. I often debate whether I am willing to plunk down the $1500 for further training.

Now anecdotally (sp?), what I saw when I was there with the volleyball team absolutely amazed me. We had 2 athletes in particular that were facing a full year out of sport and possible “exploratory surgery” because the entire sports medicine team was at a loss. Nobody could tell them what was wrong or how to fix it. We went to San Diego and within 2 days these girls were back at full practice without any siginificant limitations. I can not explain how he got such quick results, but the story is so often the same. If you look at the testimonials or talk to someone who has been there, you will often hear “I felt tremendously better after just one or 2 sessions”. Some of this I attribute to the attitude of the exercise “therapists”. They completely believe in the method and they do a good job of convincing the patient that this is the way for them to get better. As a physical therapist I have found that often that is half the battle, getting the patient to buy into the treatment approach, regardless of what approach is employed. I have to give significant credit to the principle of utilizing exercise to restore proper posture (alignment) it just makes sense. I think that many of the other therapists and chiro’s in this forum would agree.

Now getting back to your question of time commitment. Yes, the method does require that you invest a significant amount of time to doing the exercises on a daily basis. Typicall it will be up to an hour and a half initially, but once the initial hurdles are cleared you are looking at a maintenance program of about 30-40 minutes per day. Which still is significant, I agree, and in talking to some of the Egoscue therapists, it seems as though this maintenance period pretty much lasts…well…forever. I would tend to think that once you restore the alignment you could probably maintain it by doing the exercises 3 times per week or so.

So to summarize…I find it intriguing…the basic premise seems sound to me…there is a significant time commitment…there is also a significant $$ commitment ($1500 for 8 sessions).

I would recommend starting with his first book “The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion”. Try the menus in the book and then decide from there.

For those who have lasted this long and still don’t know what the hell I’m rambling about check out www.egoscue.com

4

Lt Dan,

If you still have the book, would you do me a favor? I have borrowed it from the library, and someone has reomved Pages 117-118. What exercises are on these pages, and how do they relate to a Type II or a D-Lux?

I am hoping to use the type II exercises to offset a ?leg length discrepency? and eliminate an infrequent but debilitating left hip pain that I get on marathon length runs–it practically destroyed me at Boston this year where I ran through pain from miles 10-26.2.

Thanks, Brian

5

Brian,

I have the paperback version, so hopefully my pages 117-118 will match with you pages 117-118. Both of the exercises are hallmarks of the egoscue method and are used in almost every single condition. They are:

  1. Static back press - Lie on your back and place your legs up on a stool, chair or coffee table so that your hips and knees are at 90 degree angles. Allow your lower back to settle into the floor, this may take some time the first time you do it, he says up to 30 min. I usually find I can stay in this position about 15 minutes. I actually feel a little stiff after doing this for 15 min or so.

  2. Supine Groin Stretch - Lie on your back and place one leg up on a stool, chair, or coffee table to that your hip and knee is at 90 degree angle. The other leg should be extended and flat on the floor and you will need to place some sort of block at the foot of your extended leg to keep the foot from flopping out. I like to do this with a dining room chair. I place one leg up on the chair and I run my other leg through the legs of the chair and use the chair legs to block my leg from rolling out. This stretch takes a long time and may be different for each leg. You want to stay in this position until your hip flexor is fully relaxed. There is a simple test for knowing when this occurs. For the leg that is extended, every 5 minutes or so, contract your quads as strongly as you can. You should notice that there is one specific spot where you feel the most tension. Relax and do it again later and you will notice that the spot of tension is moving up toward your hip. Once that area of tension reaches your hip, you are done and switch legs. Like I said earlier, this one can take a while.

Good luck with those exercises, I’ll be interested to see what kind of results you get. If these aren’t the correct pages, let me know and we’ll try to figure it out.

6

I agree with most of what Lt. Dan said. I think the greatest value in the book is simply the education that you get. Before when my back would get sore, I would stretch my back. Now, I stretch my hip flexors because my tight hip flexors pull my pelvis out of alignment causing an exagerated arch in my lower back which causes lower back pain. Amazing.

Frankly, I think this link will help you best find the right stretches for you. Do these in conjunction with a local yoga class and you’ll be 85% there.

http://www.egoscue.com/htdocs/painfree/freemenus.asp

7

I bought the book Pain Free a few weeks ago. Called the San Diego office to ask them some questions. Then I went to the one in Arlington Virginia.

My main concern, and reason for not just sticking with the book, is that I thought I might be doing the exercises wrong. Then again, from reading various posts and hearing some of the same stories, I’m probably doing them correctly. So, why would I potentially be doing them wrong? For one, as was mentioned above when you do the “Supine Groin” position, you should feel your hip flexor EVENTUALLY relax. After 3 weeks I’m up to 1:00 per leg in this position before feeling any “relaxation”. I did, however, finally feel what was described.

I’ve had chronic plantar, achilles, calf, knee, and hip pain on my right side for 20-years or so. Noone else has been able to offer any real hope of the pains going away until Egoscue. While I can not say that I had remarkable outcomes like the Wisconsin Volley Ball team, I have actually been able to run a little on the treadmill…first time since June.

It is worth repeating that, while they can make your joints better…they will take an arm and a leg from you. To the tune of $250 for a 1hr session!

8

All I can say is no running for nine months, Plantar facisits, bought the book ran a marathon 8weeks later, I swear no BS. Got it used on amazon. Still have it alittle as I haved slacked on the exercises, but best 13bucks I ever spent.

9

I keep meaning to buy the Egoscue book “Pain Free,” but haven’t yet done so, but have heard great things about it. I will add it to my amazon wish list.

In the meantime, I have become a huge fan of trigger point therapy. I’ve studied up on it (it’s similar to ART in some says), and do it to myself and have a massage therapist also versed that can work on me as well.

I firmly believe that many of the sports injuries/pain we suffer through are mostly not caused by the sports themselves, but rather by lifestyle habits built up over many years. I may work out, on average, 2 hours per day, but that leaves many other hours in each day where I am doing things potentially contributing to poor alignment and other problems. The workouts may just be the tipping point in an already messed up system. People who don’t work out regularly tend not to notice a problem until there’s an acute event. When non-athletic types comment that they think I always have something that’s sore/tender, I tell them that I am lucky that the sports bring these things to my attention sooner than if I was a cough potato.

What BarryP said about hip flexors is a good example. If you sit a lot, you are keeping your hip flexors, notably the iliopsoas, in a state of tension. Add to that copious amounts of biking and running, and you can see how you end up with low back tightness/pain. But it’s not caused by the running and biking; it’s the additive effect of the lifestyle issues exacerbated by sports.

I think that different people will find different methods/techniques that work best for them; but a common thread is understanding what about your lifestyle predisposes you to your sports exacerbating root causes.

Which is why I love the book “The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook,” because it taught me not just about trigger points, but all the stupid lifestyle things that I do mindlessly that make things worse. Yes, a sudden increase in run volume or intensity can set off a muscle, but so can holding it in a bizarre position during your daily life routine. Things like posture, spending a lot of time driving, sitting, ergonomics of your work setup, how you sit, sleep, etc.

You run? You bike? Build a strong core, and then stretch the hell out of your iliopsoas, quads, hamstrings, calves (soleus especially), adductors and abductors to counteract the added stress you are placing on them in addition to your daily activities.

I spend maybe 1 hour a week on abs/core strengthening and another 2 hours doing stretching/trigger point work/yoga poses, and get a 1.5 hour massage weekly. I guess that works out to about 40 minutes a day spent towards what I consider recovery/injury prevention. Well worth the time, IMO.

YMMV

10

I am certified in the Egoscue method although I do not practice what I preach nearly enough. I will tell you this, if you do the exercises as prescribed you will get better. Honestly, I know Pete and have spent tons of time with the Egoscue folks through an old work connection. I have a B.S in Exercise Physiology and will admit that I was definitely skeptical at first. After learning from Pete and reading the books I am 100% sold. There is no “witchcraft” but rather totally sound biomechanic principles. Unfortunately, it is not a magic potion. If you want the results you must put in the time (often 1-2 hours a day). I can’t imagine a better way to spend $250 dollars if you are truly in pain…it is certainly better than the surgery route.