Economics of tri bike: Specialized Shiv = a good value?

Triathlon Forum
1

Ok, ok, the $5500 price tag is a bit steep. However if you are looking for a new Superbike this is probably one of the top 3 fastest bikes (amongst SC, Felt/Cervelo). At first when I heard the price I thought it was crazy, but now that I have thought about it it isn’t that bad a of a deal.

You take the $5500 and you get a S-Works FACT crankset that runs ~$650-700 plus you get your integrated aerobar (probably run ~$1000 for a 3T Ventus). So I think a fair assessment is you get ~$1500-1700 worth of value in the crank and aerobar. Just for reference:

P4= $4600 for just the frameset
Plasma3= $4000 for just the frameset
SC= $4700 for frameset + aerobar
Trinity Advanced SL= $4000 for full module like the Shiv
Felt DA= $4000-4500 for just the frameset

So really a $5500 Shiv minus the $1500 in extras you get put it fairly competitively amongst the other frames it is competing against. The Giant seems to be an outlier compared to everyone else as I guess it offers the most bang for the buck, but the styling and aero design is a bit suspect to me still. With the Shiv you obviously lose the ability to source your own crank/aero bar for your build.

The P4 seems to be the outlier the other way in being a bit more expensive than everyone else and giving you less for it. Take the Plasma3, Felt DA and add a crank + aero bars or take the Trek SC + add a crank and you are getting very close to the same cost as the Shiv. Obviously you could cut corners and buy a component of lesser quality, but if similar to the Shiv I think it would price out in the same ballpark, +/- $100/200

2

My wife always enjoys when I try to warrant a super duper bike with anything other than, “I just want one.”
.

3

I don’t know if I would call it a good value, but it is in line with the other high end bikes. A good value would be a P2C or maybe a 7 series SC (I am sure there are others).

4

Shiv also includes brakes and mine came with cables.

5

Shiv also includes brakes and mine came with cables.

Did you also get brake levers?

6

Yes, but they were pretty lame so I got rid of them and put some SRAM’s on it.

7

I don’t know if I would call it a good value, but it is in line with the other high end bikes. A good value would be a P2C or maybe a 7 series SC (I am sure there are others).

I agree. The P2 or 7 SC would be great for a lower end tri bike. No doubt. Even a P1 is a great bike. But this thread was more in reference to the new “superbikes.” This is an elite crowd and I thought it was just interesting looking at the cost of them.

8

Ok, ok, the $5500 price tag is a bit steep. However if you are looking for a new Superbike this is probably one of the top 3 fastest bikes (amongst SC, Felt/Cervelo). At first when I heard the price I thought it was crazy, but now that I have thought about it it isn’t that bad a of a deal.

You take the $5500 and you get a S-Works FACT crankset that runs ~$650-700 plus you get your integrated aerobar (probably run ~$1000 for a 3T Ventus). So I think a fair assessment is you get ~$1500-1700 worth of value in the crank and aerobar. Just for reference:

P4= $4600 for just the frameset
Plasma3= $4000 for just the frameset
SC= $4700 for frameset + aerobar
Trinity Advanced SL= $4000 for full module like the Shiv
Felt DA= $4000-4500 for just the frameset

So really a $5500 Shiv minus the $1500 in extras you get put it fairly competitively amongst the other frames it is competing against. The Giant seems to be an outlier compared to everyone else as I guess it offers the most bang for the buck, but the styling and aero design is a bit suspect to me still. With the Shiv you obviously lose the ability to source your own crank/aero bar for your build.

The P4 seems to be the outlier the other way in being a bit more expensive than everyone else and giving you less for it. Take the Plasma3, Felt DA and add a crank + aero bars or take the Trek SC + add a crank and you are getting very close to the same cost as the Shiv. Obviously you could cut corners and buy a component of lesser quality, but if similar to the Shiv I think it would price out in the same ballpark, +/- $100/200

The price point on the Shiv was set largely using that math. It’s frame + seatpost (standard now, but wasn’t always) + brakes + aerobars + extensions. You need:
FD, RD, Shifters Pedals, Saddle, Chain, Cassette, Wheels/Tubes/Tires, and you are ready to ride. It’s a very complete package.

9

In the spirit of Jordan’s effort to make sure all the details are captured…the SC frameset includes brakes, stem, seatpost and draft box as well.

10

Sorry to piss on your fire but if someone has to think of it like that they probably shouldn’t be buying a 8 to 10 grand bike.

11

Sorry to piss on your fire but if someone has to think of it like that they probably shouldn’t be buying a 8 to 10 grand bike.

Well my friend this is true. However if someone already has all the componenets or already has Di2 or a set of race wheels, it won’t cost 8-10 grand. I was just showing that looking at $, the Shiv really isn’t that big of a jump over the others. Might not even be a jump at all when you do the math. This is just for the framesets/modules. Complete bikes is a different issue. At this point if you are going to be buying a super bike, odds are you already have a nice set of wheels/or a few sets of race wheels.

12

…The P4 seems to be the outlier the other way in being a bit more expensive than everyone else and giving you less for it. …
But it does come with that snazzy water bottle/fairing thingy…

(and rear brake)

13

I never understood the seeming NEED companies have to include race wheels on their “top end” bike.

My LBS has had 2 Speed Concepts in, sold both the day they got them in, but what is still on the wall… both sets of Bontrager wheels.

Probably the only thing MORE silly, is if they insist on putting race wheels on these bikes…why is a disc generally not even an option? As that’s what most of the people riding them are going to be using anyways.

14

So, I’m kinda in the market for a new frame so figured I would fix this up for others users if they wanted it. Let me know if anything is incorrect/needs to be fixed:

P4= $4600 for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, rear brake, headset)

Plasma3 Premium (Tri)= $4000 for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, stem, headset)

Plasma3 Di2 (TT)= $4700 for the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, stem, headset) and PRO carbon fiber integrated aerobar

SC= $4700 for frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, stem, f+r brakes, headset) + draft box + Bontrager Speed Concept aero bar

Trinity Advanced SL= $4000 for full module (frame, fork, seatpost, steam, f+r brakes, headset) + AeroDrive Composite AeroBar

Felt DA= ?$4000-4500? for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, steam, headset) + maybe brakes?

Does this look about right?

15

Thanks for the info guys and for the nice list 53x12. I think it is important to realize the “value” of buying a frameset since there is more than meets the eye. I want to add the Shiv to the list.

Shiv= $5500 for frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem + S-Works aero bars, + f&r brakes, + Shiv brake levers + S-Works FACT crank

P4= $4600 for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + rear brake

Plasma3 Premium (Tri)= $4000 for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem

Plasma3 Di2 (TT)= $4700 for the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem + PRO carbon fiber integrated aerobar

SC= $4700 for frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem+ f&r brakes + draft box + Bontrager Speed Concept aero bar

Trinity Advanced SL= $4000 for full module (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem+ f+r brakes, + AeroDrive Composite AeroBar

Felt DA= ?$4000-4500? for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem + maybe brakes?

16

Thanks for the info guys and for the nice list 53x12. I think it is important to realize the “value” of buying a frameset since there is more than meets the eye. I want to add the Shiv to the list.

Shiv= $5500 for frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem + S-Works aero bars, + f&r brakes, + Shiv brake levers + S-Works FACT crank

P4= $4600 for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + rear brake

Plasma3 Premium (Tri)= $4000 for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem

Plasma3 Di2 (TT)= $4700 for the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem + PRO carbon fiber integrated aerobar

SC= $4700 for frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem+ f&r brakes + draft box + Bontrager Speed Concept aero bar

Trinity Advanced SL= $4000 for full module (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem+ f+r brakes, + AeroDrive Composite AeroBar

Felt DA= ?$4000-4500? for just the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost, headset) + stem + maybe brakes?

Or, for a P4 for example, you can get a complete bike, ready to ride, for $6k (down from $6800 last season. Bastards.)
SRAM RED cranks, ders & shifters, good training wheels, decent aerobars and saddle, nice brake levers, etc etc etc.

So - comparing this to the Shiv, for example - you’d have to get wheels and all the other “missing” components for $500, all-in, to match the P4.
Yes, I know - lots of folks might have some of this stuff kicking around already. Lots don’t.
For a fair apples-to-apples comparison = all new components - the P4 is at least as good (if not a better) deal as the Shiv.

What I did, was get the full P4 package, then sell off some of the unused parts (wheels, aerobars, cassette) to friends for the nice price.
I got to defray a bit of the cost, they got a great deal on brand new stuff they wanted. Win win.

17

Or, for a P4 for example, you can get a complete bike, ready to ride, for $6k (down from $6800 last season. Bastards.)
SRAM RED cranks, ders & shifters, good training wheels, decent aerobars and saddle, nice brake levers, etc etc etc.

So - comparing this to the Shiv, for example - you’d have to get wheels and all the other “missing” components for $500, all-in, to match the P4.
Yes, I know - lots of folks might have some of this stuff kicking around already. Lots don’t.
For a fair apples-to-apples comparison = all new components - the P4 is at least as good (if not a better) deal as the Shiv.

What I did, was get the full P4 package, then sell off some of the unused parts (wheels, aerobars, cassette) to friends for the nice price.
I got to defray a bit of the cost, they got a great deal on brand new stuff they wanted. Win win.

Hmmm could you build a Shiv for the other $500 difference? Saddle, shifters, RD, FD. The only thing is wheels. But at this level, I’m sure the typical consumer has 2-3 training wheels and 2-3 race wheels. Let’t see:

SRAM Red FD: $85 new
SRAM Red RD: $215 new
SRAM 900tt shifters: $145 new
fi’zi:k Arione Tri2 saddle: $100 new

Total= $545

I wonder if you could find a nice saddle for $55 and keep the total under $500. But I guess you are still out of a set of training wheels, but for most this probably won’t matter. Still, the Shiv really isn’t that bad of a deal. Plus it looks a lot better than the P4 (subjective) and is faster than the P4 (subjective/objective). Hasn’t Cervelo been having warranty issues with the P4?

18

Or, for a P4 for example, you can get a complete bike, ready to ride, for $6k (down from $6800 last season. Bastards.)
SRAM RED cranks, ders & shifters, good training wheels, decent aerobars and saddle, nice brake levers, etc etc etc.

So - comparing this to the Shiv, for example - you’d have to get wheels and all the other “missing” components for $500, all-in, to match the P4.
Yes, I know - lots of folks might have some of this stuff kicking around already. Lots don’t.
For a fair apples-to-apples comparison = all new components - the P4 is at least as good (if not a better) deal as the Shiv.

What I did, was get the full P4 package, then sell off some of the unused parts (wheels, aerobars, cassette) to friends for the nice price.
I got to defray a bit of the cost, they got a great deal on brand new stuff they wanted. Win win.

Hmmm could you build a Shiv for the other $500 difference? Saddle, shifters, RD, FD. The only thing is wheels. But at this level, I’m sure the typical consumer has 2-3 training wheels and 2-3 race wheels. Let’t see:

SRAM Red FD: $85 new
SRAM Red RD: $215 new
SRAM 900tt shifters: $145 new
fi’zi:k Arione Tri2 saddle: $100 new

Total= $545

I wonder if you could find a nice saddle for $55 and keep the total under $500. But I guess you are still out of a set of training wheels, but for most this probably won’t matter. Still, the Shiv really isn’t that bad of a deal. Plus it looks a lot better than the P4 (subjective) and is faster than the P4 (subjective/objective). Hasn’t Cervelo been having warranty issues with the P4?

You can go ahead and talk yourself into buying a Shiv, because you want to buy a Shiv. Totally cool, it’s your $, you need to be happy.
Stop pretending it’s because it’s the “best deal”. You want what you want.
Is it a “bad deal”. No, not really.

But the P4 is actually a better deal, for what you get, and what it would cost if you had to buy it separately.
(like the wheels. Tires. And a cassette. A chain is always nice. Tubes and skewers are helpful too. I find cables incredibly useful on a bike as well.)
Enjoy your new Shiv!

19

You can go ahead and talk yourself into buying a Shiv, because you want to buy a Shiv. Totally cool, it’s your $, you need to be happy.
Stop pretending it’s because it’s the “best deal”. You want what you want.
Is it a “bad deal”. No, not really.

Well said.

I’ve always believed this. Buy what you want and that is the “best deal” for you. Justify it however you need to. My justification for anything is: I wanted it, I bought it, and I don’t care if others think something else is a better deal. Its not a better deal if I did not want it.

20

So it is 9/2/10 and the new Felt website is up. Still no price on the Felt DA. Anyone know why?